So now that Beer Trading threadshitting is back in full-effect ...

Blog Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by Todd, Apr 25, 2012.

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  1. Sarlacc83

    Sarlacc83 Initiate (0) Mar 2, 2008 Oregon

    This is why I think the forums have started to devolve and instant whales have become more prevalent. (CBS, King Henry, KBS, probably Dark Lord 2012.) People see a 1 bottle limit on the shelf and automatically assume the beer is incredibly, super rare rather than over distributed. So when a brewery only release like Beatification happens, the opinion becomes that "1 of my 3 bottles I had to work super hard to get" is worth 2X what your bottle is, even if the bottle counts and dollar amounts are similar. (And then even worse, "It's still on shelves. Why won't anybody trade me 6? Or proxy 6 for me? You're JERKS!) I don't think a lot of new traders appreciate that most bottles require a lot of effort on all ends. If they did, I think you'd see a lot of the groundswell start to decrease.
     
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  2. Agold

    Agold Maven (1,251) Mar 13, 2010 Pennsylvania

    I'm curious, is there a feature on the forums that allows you to show disciplinary history on a member's profile, or put a link to that there? I think it would be good to see something like:
    userX was warned for post y on date z
     
  3. tjohn2401

    tjohn2401 Initiate (0) May 26, 2010 Michigan

    My vote is for Shogo, Rempo, Kzoo, and also a west coaster and someone overseas.
     
    claaark13 likes this.
  4. Photekut

    Photekut Initiate (0) Mar 31, 2006 Tennessee

    I may have missed it, but have mods already been chosen?

    Some people are no longer "members" but are "site editors"

    I really do not like the idea of Mods no matter who they are, but I guess I am in the vast minority.
     
    cosmicevan likes this.
  5. cosmicevan

    cosmicevan Initiate (0) Dec 13, 2009 New York
    Trader

    in a post only environment, yes...where replies are available not so much since everyone will jump on the initial post and dictate what should get what. and if i wanted rare and someone posted that they had it for stuff i didn't have, i could still converse and try to work with them (although i would probably not reach out to someone looking for dirty horse for it). you never get offers for stuff that you aren't looking for when you post a FT?

    this happens even still today without post only. think you know what a DL is "worth?" check out what the trade forum looks like next week. the only difference will be that those who have DL will chime in on how it should trade for more...those who want it will say that you are asking too much.

    the problem existed before post only, that's why it was tried out. perhaps it wasn't the solution, but the problem existed before and being on the side of typically feeling that if a post is silly it will just die a quick death, i liked it. unfortunately the good FT posts died the same quick death. the only problem with post only is that there was no way for people to chime in on how ridiculous an offer was to discourage others from following like sheep and no way to know if things got done or not...so one person reaching for the moon encouraged others to reach for the moon (but that still happens and everyone likes to chime in on what should get done or shouldn't get done). i don't think that the public flogging and fairness police method of today is any better. in fact it gives more attention to silly FTs and ultimately creates more babysitting for the bros. not to mention people who like to trade $4$ are suddenly informed that they should be asking for more because values get inflated.

    perhaps a good solution would be post only in combination with a feedback system where details can be entered on what got done that is searchable? probably too much work to make something like that happen and too many corner cases since things aren't always 1 for 1, but if there was a way for you to see what DL traded for you'd know what to ask for and what to give up.

    i don't know how to fix the trade forums or if they can be fixed. moderators could work depending on what their actually moderating/responsible for, but at the end of the day, if you want to make trades the best way is to establish trading partners. getting the wants/gots from the beer listing page up and running again would be a good start, then you could just converse with someone who has something on their gots that you want and avoid all the drama of the trade forum.
     
  6. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,145) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Gosh. Pahn at least has started giving TLDR's at the end for his circuitous jaunts of excessitude that could neatly be summed up in 2 sentences. IMHO this sums up your opinion on this matter.

    "perhaps a good solution would be post only in combination with a feedback system where details can be entered on what got done that is searchable?"

    "the only problem with post only is that there was no way for people to chime in on how ridiculous an offer was to discourage others from following like sheep" <----- Ya think? This is me now. Sorry couldn't resist.

    I think your idea is fine, Mr Goldberg, btw can I call you Rube?

    I will merely say the obvious, that the system we have in place accomplishes that, and so much more, in so much a better way, and the suggestion you make cannot be done without hacking code for this one forum, as mentioned by Todd.
     
  7. claaark13

    claaark13 Maven (1,412) Nov 29, 2007 Indiana
    Trader

    Without comments in the ISO/FT, the only way that n00bs (and, unfortunately, some more experienced traders in some cases) will be able to dictate trade value is through a source such as eBay. That's not a world that I want to live in.

    Knowing that your posts are completely open to the scrutiny of the community makes people think before they post. More people will look into bottle counts, prices of bottles, distribution/availability of bottles, demand of bottles, quality of bottles (tasty beer, crappy beer, infected beer), etc. There is no exact science to bottle values, but that is a great start. Then, as a whole, the ISO/FT forum will theoretically become more intelligent. If that is taken away, there is no accountability.

    In a sense, the ability to reply in that forum helps moderate the forum. Things that hurt the forum and turn people away are personal attacks and obscene comments. If someone gets angry and cries "Wolf!!!!" over a reply to their post that indicates/questions bottle counts or availability, they shouldn't be posting on the internet, let alone the trade forum.
     
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  8. LostTraveler

    LostTraveler Initiate (0) Oct 28, 2011 Maine

    Mods going to be able to move threads when they are in the wrong group/subculture- bc that would be really nice.
     
  9. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Initiate (0) Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    Which is what is already happening right now. If I had a bottle of KBS for every time I've heard somebody try to reference Ebay values in a trade in the last 90 days I'd never need to drink anything else...
     
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  10. maximum12

    maximum12 Grand Pooh-Bah (4,662) Jan 21, 2008 Minnesota
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    One man's threadshitting is another man's valuable information. Defining it clearly is close to impossible.

    I much prefer the forums as they are now, but I'm pretty libertarian in that regard. Unless something has clearly crossed some kind of bright line (personal information, threats, positive references to the NY Yankees, etc.) I'd rather the sandbox just be left open for us to play in.
     
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  11. nanobrew

    nanobrew Initiate (0) Dec 31, 2008 California

    the funny/interesting part is when they say "beer A has an ebay cost of $$, so I should get 4x beer B" without ever taking into account ebay cost of beer B. Though this is all moot because ebay typically is a bad place to start with value anyways
     
  12. Retail1LO

    Retail1LO Initiate (0) May 4, 2011 Pennsylvania

    A few things I'd like to see happen, although not all of them would be necessary if one or two were in place.

    Go back to the limit of "x" number of ISO/FT posts per week. Some people seem to post a couple a day.
    Get rid of replies.
    Don't bump threads when they're replied to.

    I'd be happy with any or all of those ideas.
     
    cosmicevan likes this.
  13. stupac2

    stupac2 Pooh-Bah (2,031) Feb 22, 2011 California
    Pooh-Bah Society

    For shelf beer, yeah it's pretty bad. It's not terrible for out-of-production stuff, but generally people can just go with their gut for that anyway.
     
  14. MasterSki

    MasterSki Grand Pooh-Bah (4,824) Dec 25, 2006 Canada (ON)
    Super Mod Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    JR - I'm a site editor, but I have no powers in the forums. I can just fix beer names, ABVs, place addresses, etc.
     
  15. MarkIntihar

    MarkIntihar Initiate (0) Mar 17, 2010 Michigan

    I've recently seen a lot of "This is a great offer, this should definitely get done!" type posts and am wondering if these should also be flagged. By interjecting their own opinion, people seem to be opening up others' legitimate offers for debate. It's also completely unnecessary, as the OP in that situation obviously knows his offer is solid.
     
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  16. JM03

    JM03 Initiate (0) Nov 12, 2010 Ohio

    I agree. Almost every trade now has either the replies of negativity, or the replies of "great offer" / "I wish i had that beer because i would do this".. etc..

    I am not sure how I feel about them. Either way, I am not sure they are necessary.
     
  17. cosmicevan

    cosmicevan Initiate (0) Dec 13, 2009 New York
    Trader

    agreed. if you think something is great and should get done, make the trade. if you don't have the beer being asked for in the trade, then there shouldn't be a comment.
     
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  18. Sarlacc83

    Sarlacc83 Initiate (0) Mar 2, 2008 Oregon

    It seems to me that a lot of the "This a great trade and should get done" comments are usually about offers that won't be completed. I wonder how many people want to see said offer get done because they have the bottle being traded, and want to see if they can use it to trade up?
     
  19. MarkIntihar

    MarkIntihar Initiate (0) Mar 17, 2010 Michigan

    Exactly. Opens it up for people with similar beers to keep bumping the OP's thread so it can get done, in hopes they can then turn around and copycat his post. If you (the general you reading this, not cosmicevan) think I'm just being cynical, then you haven't been watching the trade forums lately.
     
  20. MarkIntihar

    MarkIntihar Initiate (0) Mar 17, 2010 Michigan

    Great minds...
     
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