Brewing Westmalle Tripel - Recipe Help

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by peter831, Nov 2, 2013.

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  1. peter831

    peter831 Initiate (0) Dec 2, 2012 California

    First belgian tripel for me

    wonder about this recipe found on the BYO site:

    • 5.5 lbs. pale malt
    • 1 lb. light caramel malt (10° Lovibond)
    • 4 lbs. unhopped extra-light dry malt extract (DME)
    • 1 lb. clear candi sugar
    • 3 AAU Styrian Goldings hops (1 oz. at 3% alpha acid)
    • 3 AAU Tettnang hops (0.75 oz. at 4% alpha acid)
    • 3 AAU Fuggle hops (0.5 oz. at 6% alpha acid)
    • 2 AAU Saaz hops (0.5 oz. at 4% alpha acid)
    with no hops till 30 min of a 90 minute boil


    compared to this from http://danielshomebrew.blogspot.com/2013/01/this-recipe-was-modified-from-byos.html

    5g batch
    OG 1.082
    FG 1.012

    8lbs pale malt
    3lbs pilsener DME
    1lb clear candi syrup
    1oz Styrian Goldings hops
    0.75oz Tettnang hops
    0.50oz Fuggle hops
    0.50oz Saaz hops
    Wyeast 3787 (4L starter)

    Mash grain at 150f for 90 minutes, sparge at 170f.

    Bring collected wort to a boil. Boil 60 minutes with the following hop additions: Goldings & Tettnang @ :60, Fuggles @ :25 and Saaz @ :05. I also mixed in the DME & syrup @ :15 so it didn't caramalize, watch for a second boil over when doing this.


    Doing all grain....

    have enough of the hops to go the big but no need to waste them

    Hop quantities are way different and hopping schedule as well. (In beer smith the OG of the BYO is not close so it needs to be increase but the Hop IBU's are way high.

    What do you think?

    Go in the middle?
     
  2. NiceFly

    NiceFly Initiate (0) Dec 22, 2011 Tajikistan

    Here is what I did for my attempt. I did a 10 gallon split batch with different pitching rates for WY3787.

    Pilsner malt and cane sugar to an OG 1.080. Cane sugar was 18.5% of fermentables so for me it was 25# malt 3.5# sugar. My water was typical malty water with high chloride around 100 ppm and calcium over 50 ppm.

    Mash 90 minutes at 150F, sparge and 90 minute boil, yeast nutrient.

    My pitching rates were 450K cells/ml/plato and 750 cells/ml/plato. I think the 450 came closer to Westmalle. The next morning I gave it more O2, which meant dumping it from my bucket to my kettle and back to the bucket. The 450K rate was a little slower to start but both finished out at 1.010.

    Hold at 65F 48 hours (in a swamp cooler) then allowed to rise. 72F by 72 hours and 80F by 96 hours where it stayed for the duration of 10 days. Lagered them a few weeks, added fresh yeast at bottling.

    I only carbed to 3.0 volumes because I got cold feet about sending them out for the exchange. I should have carbed 3.5 or so. It also did not finish as low as I wanted, it was not as dry. I would up the sugar to 22% of fermentables next time, otherwise carbonation and FG aside it was very close.

    Good luck!

    edit: oh yea, hops. Sazz 3.5%aa 4.5oz at 60 min for 21.4IBU and 6 oz at 15 min for 14 IBU for a total of 36? IBU.
     
  3. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    OP - NiceFly has a good run down on ingredients, it is Pils malt and sugar (20%). If you can find a copy of Brew Like a Monk, the mash temps and fermentation procedures are talked over there.
     
  4. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    I would avoid crystal malt in a Tripel, they are not part of the style. All the sweetness you get in that beer is from the alcohol and the esters. Also, don't waste money on clear candi sugar, it gives no different a flavor profile than table sugar... which you can buy at the grocery store for less than 1/4 the price.
     
  5. peter831

    peter831 Initiate (0) Dec 2, 2012 California

    thanks for the tips, brewed on Sunday, used what I had on hand, hit OG 82, installed blowoff tube and its going crazy.
     
    NiceFly likes this.
  6. peter831

    peter831 Initiate (0) Dec 2, 2012 California

    final recipe:

    14 # pale malt
    1.25# crystal 15
    1# clear candied sugar
    3# cane sugar

    (20% sugar, seems about right.)

    Cut the hops to:
    • 1 AAU Styrian Goldings hops (1 oz. at 3% alpha acid) 60 minutes
    • 1 AAU Tettnang hops (0.75 oz. at 4% alpha acid) 60 minutes
    • 1 AAU Fuggle hops (0.5 oz. at 6% alpha acid) 20 minutes
    • 2 AAU Saaz hops (0.5 oz. at 4% alpha acid) flame out (sat for 15 minutes before chilling
    Cut the boil to 60 minutes, longer results in more caramelization right?


    letting the gravity slowly rise, now at 69, and still bubbling away, smells great.....
     
  7. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    True caramelization doesn't really happen in the boil. Maillard reactions do, producing melanoidins (brown compounds that add color and flavor). It's interesting that you're concerned about limiting caramelization, yet you used 1.25 pounds of C-10. As jbakajust1 said, crystal malts are not really appropriate to the style. I hope it works out the way you want.
     
  8. NiceFly

    NiceFly Initiate (0) Dec 22, 2011 Tajikistan

    Maillard reactions do not take place in the boil. Temp, pH, and water content of a boiling wort are no where near what is needed for Maillard reactions.
     
  9. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    There are lots of internet references to the contrary (i.e. in support of Maillard reactions in the boil, and relatively few claiming the opposite), but they are a dime a dozen. But here's one credentialed reference not written by someone on a forum or in a magazine...
    http://books.google.com/books?id=mnh6aoI8iF8C&pg=PA457&lpg=PA457&dq=maillard reaction wort boil&source=bl&ots=EVSms2Bjrm&sig=NXjIqbPFQi3e1GXlKd4RQRyzrkU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=oQV9UojJEpK14AOsxICwBg&ved=0CGgQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=maillard reaction wort boil&f=false
    See page 457 (near the bottom) and following.
     
    #9 VikeMan, Nov 8, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2013
  10. ryane

    ryane Initiate (0) Nov 21, 2007 Washington

    just a nit pick....

    I agree with you that I think maillard rx in boil are minimial, but at boil temps maillard rx are possible, pH is probably the big reason why they dont really happen, a slighly acidic pH will inhibit maillard rx, its at basic pH that the rx are really going gangbusters
     
  11. peter831

    peter831 Initiate (0) Dec 2, 2012 California

    Alright, been 2 weeks or so, just an update.

    Stalled after 7 days at 1.022

    Added dry champagne yeast and 6 days later dropped to 1.013

    I will leave it for another few days to see if its done.

    then ??

    not sure exactly what I should do with it.
     
  12. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I doubt that it was really stalled, unless the remaining sugars were all simple sugars (which is unlikely). Champagne yeast can't eat Maltotriose. And it's bad at eating Maltose. IOW, I suspect your gravity would have been at 1.013 after another 6 days either way.

    Then give it some more time for the yeast to clean up their byproducts, then bottle or keg.
     
    PortLargo likes this.
  13. NiceFly

    NiceFly Initiate (0) Dec 22, 2011 Tajikistan

    3787 is a strange strain. It seems like it goes like hell in the beginning but takes its sweet time toward the end of fermentation.

    I agree with Vikeman the Champagne yeast did nothing for your cause.

    If you can I would cold condition the beer for a few weeks then bottle.
     
  14. peter831

    peter831 Initiate (0) Dec 2, 2012 California

    Cold condition,,,, how cold is cold?

    I used 550 at the start.
     
  15. NiceFly

    NiceFly Initiate (0) Dec 22, 2011 Tajikistan

    As close to freezing as you can. I usually put it in my kegorator, around 42F.
     
  16. peter831

    peter831 Initiate (0) Dec 2, 2012 California

    perfect, thats what the bottom shelf of the kegerator is for!!
     
  17. peter831

    peter831 Initiate (0) Dec 2, 2012 California

    Have to say it turned out great, put some in plastic pop bottles and carbed the up,

    most likely will bottle some and drink the rest from a keg

    thanks for your input
     
    NiceFly likes this.
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