Do you normally over pitch saison yeast

You get the flavor profile you want by controlling the ferm temp..I wouldnt intentionally over or under pitch

 

I don't deliberately underpitch, but I would probably rather be a little bit short with a belgian yeast vs way over-pitching.

What yeast are you thinking about for your saison?

 

This is the text book answer . . . and it probably works. But in practice it's harder to execute. Say your recipe calls for 190B cells and you want to under pitch by 10% . . . are you set up to accurately measure 171B cells? I make an attempt at this but surrender to the fact I may always be off in my measurements. In my experience, over pitching has not been a fatal mistake.

 

This. Quantity is not relevant for flavour, but it is for safety (contamination risks) so over pitching is safer but expensive, better make a good starter hours before and you´re good to go.

 

Underpitching will increase the level of esters produced by the yeast.

I am not specifically encouraging you to underpitch your Saison, just pointing out this phenomenon.

Cheers!

 

Why do you say quantity (over pitching) is safer?

 

It reduces the contamination risk, that´s the principle of yeast starters. From the time you pitch yeast to the time it starts to ferment, your wort is in ideal condition for bacteria, so a lot of yeast cells would start fermenting, spreading and duplicating faster and won´t leave room for other bad stuff to get in. It´s the other way with under pitching(sorry for the bad english I hope I explained myself). This is for homebrewers that usually don´t have perfect sanitation processes and bacteria control.

 

Not sure I follow your line of reasoning. The purpose of starters is to increase health/quantity. Do you really think over or under pitching by say 10% makes a measurable difference in reducing infections?

You can find a spread on inoculation rates between commercial breweries. I've never heard of a brewer wanting to pitch more yeast to control contamination. Over pitching will reduce lag time but at the risk of reducing cell health. Under pitching will result in more cell growth, usually with increased flavor compounds.

For the OP: What sort of pitch rate are you considering?

 

Just need to say that unless you are counting cells under a microscope, you have no clue what you are actually pitching. Homebrew packs are a crapshoot of cells and viability and you really have no idea what you are buying. This is why you ALWAYS make a starter and buy fresh packs. As far as under of over-pitching, you can approximate to some extent but you can only go off of your results and make process changes on future batches.

For Belgian yeasts and saison strains, you usually are looking for a lower rate than English-derived yeasts, maybe even half as much. If you pitch an active starter, you can get away with a very low pitching rate compared to what the Mr. malty calculator will tell you, about half.

 

I don´t think 10% would affect considerably. Under pitching 10% will be fixed in a couple of hours by itself, overpitching 10% is usual practice in the brewery. It doesn´t affect cell health since they have a lot of food and if you have enough oxygen in your wort. Otherwise it might, for a homebrewer with not adequate oxygen levels it might be problematic to overpitch you´re right.

 

Sam,

What is the rationale for pitching at half the rate for Belgian yeasts and Saison yeasts vs. English yeast strains?

Cheers!

Jack

 

The last saison I brewed was fermented with wlp565 and brett brux trois. I co pitched a vial of each straight in and took my fermentation temps into the mid 80's. One of the major flaws that judges see is that it doesn't have enough esters. I under pitched AND brought ferm temps up hoping to get some ester production. So there's that.

 

I underpitch most Belgians and get good esters and attenuation. YMMV

 

More esters and phenols usually. But it depends on strain and other variables so that's not a rule at all. Oxygen is maybe a bigger thing now that I think about it more though. Some yeasts really don't need much oxygen and too much kills their flavor profile like some hefeweizen yeasts.

 

Yeah, all the research that we did for Experimental Homebrewing pointed towards oxygen stress as a much more reliable and preferable technique to underpitching. Debate is still way out on it, but I never underpitch and usually pitch as much yeast as I can for my saisons. (within reason)

 

For english strains I pitch about half what mr malty recommends, although it depends on the yeast, for american and clean I go with the full amount or sometimes a bit more with bry-97