Beer vs Wine in terms of complexity

Yes

 

The best wines are more drinkable (name a 12%+ beer that is as dry and refreshing) more subtle, and more complex.

They are also F***ING expensive. Wine breaks the bank, and it comes in serving sizes that are too much for one person to drink every night.

Beer has a better value, there is a lot of cruddy wine out there, it is easier to find world class beer.

Simplicity is often a virtue. I don't want wine everyday, but I'll take a couple bottles of a good lager or saison with dinner every night.

 

Yes it can be. Often it is not.

 

I agree that the most expensive wines, whether due to rarity or reputation, can only be had for a bunch of cash (the same could be said of fewer beers, especially considering the grey market). But there are so many solid wines in the $10-12 range. Even in PA, where we are subject to a state run system, we have access to a great number of good/really good, reasonable-priced bottles of wine. While the dollar signs don't match up exactly (when you consider volume, ABV, price range, etc.), I feel it's rather even, all things considered.

Complexity-wise, terroir affects hops too, and reading the back of BA or DRAFT or etc., you wine find descriptors as numerous as Wine Spectator--a rating system not crowd-sourced like most beer rankings.

 

I think beer can absolutely be as complex as wine.

But one thing I'd give an edge to wine in is how well it almost naturally complements a meal. I know I'm in the a minority here, but I don't think most beers pair exceptionally well with food (except for maybe some salty snacks). I only drink one beer per day and almost always have it before dinner.

And actually, that's one edge for beer. Coming home from work and cracking open a bottle of beer and enjoying it is way more relaxing than having a glass of wine to me. Probably just a personal bias, though.

 

Yes, it definitely can. I find beer with all its different styles to be more varied than wine but that's probably just my opinion because i don't spend as much time delving into wine as i do into beer

 

Beer can definitely be as complex as wine - perhaps even more so, as it relies on all the same factors you mentioned, but substituting hops and malts for grapes. If it appears that wine is more complex it is probably because wine-tasting has had more time to develop more nuanced and idiosyncratic terminology to describe all the factors that contribute to the taste, flavor, and feel of the wines - but we're catching up quickly...

 

The two to me are simply incomparable because their complexity derives from different sources.

With wine you can taste not only the varietal, but the year, the soil, the microclimate, as well as the preference and style of the producer. So the complexity of the wine in your glass comes from an interplay of all these variables, making it a complex and rich topic to discuss

With beer, esp. in the form of american or "american influenced" european craft beer, you basically have only the style of the producer, since the ingredients are more often than not imported from god knows where, and due to the nature of the ingredients and the complicated brewing processes, you can not really taste the year or the soil, only the variety of yeast, hops,malt and so on. Heck, many US craft brewers thrive for authentic versions of traditional Euro Styles, see Saison or Kölsch, and they succeed. Try making a typical Mosel Kabinett Riesling in California, good luck......
So the complexity derives mainly from the way the brewer brews and the recipe he uses, making it a much more straitforward afair.

So I would always argue that wine is a deeper and more complex drink and topic. But I sure love both.

 

Just a thought. I used to feel pretty much the same way as you until I read Garrett Oliver's Brewmaster's Table and a friend convinced me to attend a couple of tasting dinners at Philly Beer Week to see what the fuss might be about. Helped me to realize that chefs and wine tasting experts tended to know a lot more about how to get it right with wine and food and that beer and fine foods were still a partly unexplored territory as hold over from the days when all we had to choose from was one Adjunct Lager or another. If you ever see a copy of Oliver's book where you've the time to look through it you might just find it worth buying.

 

Interesting question, but to be honest, why just wine?

I am very much into both beer and wine, but I know friends who are into coffee, whiskey, cigars, etc... and they would argue the complexities in their chosen obsession is just as interesting and subtle as wine or beer.

Even something like bread would work - you have your plain old white bunny bread, all the way through every conceivable variant of yeast and flour. Complexity is there whenever you choose to look for it...

 

I think it's a set of expectations that we have come to accept as part of drinking wine and that is just part of the culture around it.
Beer has its own set of expectations, and for the good beer drinker, and one who wants to be able to begin discerning these aspects. There are many obstacles and pre-existing expectations to overcome, and a language with which to speak about it that is still being developed.
You don't see dogs playing drums to sell wine.

 

Absolutely as complex

 

I used to agree with you until I learned that the real problem with such a comparison is that the wine makers and the wine merchants have for years made a virtue out of a necessity (i.e., heavy dependence on weather, different soils in different regions, etc.). What the growth of a wine industry in the US, Australia, etc. is that in blind tasting what shines through as being most critical is the skill of the winemaker.

Compounding the difficulty of comparison is that in many places/regions the brewers and the beer merchants have, until relatively recently made lots of efforts to conceal or eliminate those inconsistencies from year to year and field to field throught careful blending of ingredients. However, when brewers are able to avail themselves of such things as locally grown ingredients, etc. they are able to put their skills to work at creating every bit as much complexity and diversity.

Perhaps while you are doing your German wine explorations, you might find it useful to start spending time in beer regions of Germany (e.g., Franconia and Bavaria) exploring the products of the hundreds of small, local breweries just as you do small, local wineries in the wine regions?

 

Why not, beer is aged in oak barrels, bourbon barrels , rum barrels, he'll even wine barrels. Each lends something quite different to the final product.

 

As a long term fan of single malt whisky and a long term home baker I can vouch for the validity of your analogy here.

 

Wine is a completely agricultural product, dependent on proper grapes to define the winemaker's intent. There are wines of all kinds, but one need not spend a fortune for very good wine. Great Spanish and Southern French wines are available for $15 and less that are delicious and perfect with a variety of food options. Chile and Argentina produce an array of nice value choices, not to mention Portugal and South Africa. Although beer and wine are both fermented beverages, wine is dependent on vintage, grape variety, and a winemaker's skill at letting the grapes best express themselves as wine. Except for fresh hop beers, beer is generally made from harvested and stored products (malted barley and hops), and seems to me to be a bit more cut and dried than fickle wine elaboration. Yeast choices are paramount in both beer and wine production. Both beer and wine can be very complex in flavor, aroma, color, and in many more ways. My first love is beer, but I cherish wine as well.

 

I savor a touch of neat Talisker every so often. It makes me think of the ocean.

 

You're probably also one of those ****ies that complains about Sucks being too expensive and too big of a beer to want to drink a quart of it at a time. Man up son.

 

I'm more of an Islay fan myself, particularly Bowmore Darkest and Ardbeg.

But a suggestion? Next time rather than completely neat, add a small splash of unchlorinated spring water. It awakens a sleeping whisky.