Märican Biere Bought and Drunk...

The Urban Chestnut German brewery has been brewing beer since May/June 2015: http://urbanchestnut.com/2015/06/02...lertauer-brewery-brews-first-batches-of-bier/

I am interested in what the German beer drinkers think of these beers.

Cheers!

 

Also as promised, my review on Shiner 107, Hoppy Pilsner.

What strikes me about this beer is the bitterness that dances on the edge of harshness. The Euro hop character is terrific because of just that: German and Czech hops -- no U.S. Pac Northwest hops trying to make this beer artificially creative. But the bitter herbal quality of the hops gets close to overwhelming, then goes clean and saves the beer. That and the great malt breadiness. Could be the freshness factor too, but either way -- I liked it.

@breadwinner I hadn't originally noticed you were the member who added this one, but I sent a notice for a style change to German-style Pilsener; mostly because that's the way it hits me in character... and, if you check the label and web site, it's also what Shiner says it brewed.

 

Good man on the change -- I actually realized I'd made the mistake but was just too lazy to correct it

Dig the writeup too. Agree that it cleans up so well, which really allows you to enjoy the hops, as you said, because it never gets one dimensional -- you can really take in that nice hop character, and then settle into a solid malt core to even it all out. Definitely plan on snapping up another sixer or two before it's gone.

 

Great observation, so many attempts at Pilsner can become just that.

 

Ironically, this has become my quibble with a lot of the new wave IPAs coming out these days, which pull back so hard on the malt bill (in order to "showcase" the fancy new hops) that it leaves the beer feeling thin, hollow, and out of balance. I know it's funny to suggest the IPA style needs balance -- and I'm not even suggesting the hops and malt need to be equally balanced, just that there needs to be something complementary between them, rather than the malt being an afterthought that ultimately becomes a distraction.

But, I digress. More hoppy pils with noble hops, please!

 

Not at all -- brewers figured that out years ago. It's the modern brewers (but not all modern brewers) who try to "push the envelope" and always take it that one step too far.

 

Celebration Ale is the first that comes to mind to describe this balance.

It's not even the amount of hops, but the amount of hops added during dry hopped. If an IPA is overly dry hopped (see these murky, must-be-consumed-uber-fresh fruit-forward IPAs) you get virtually no flavor contribution from the malts.

Many of the pilsners I dislike do this as well, if they're excessively dry hopped I can't pick out the pils malt very well, if at all. A pilsner can be on the hoppier end and still display a nice pils malt character (see Jever). For an example of a pilsner that was far too hoppy due to being dry hopped, see Peak Organic's Fresh Cut.

 

I enjoy drinking Firestone Walker Pivo Pils. I can perceive the malt flavors in that beer and it is complimented nicely by dry hopping with German Saphir hops.

Cheers!

 

This could also be from the type of malt used and the mashing process.

I think someone mentioned that the Shiner 107 might be dry hopped (though I don't see that in the Shiner notes)? But their malts really come through. Whatever they did worked and other brewers ought to take note.

 

Dry hopping isn't evil, forgive me if I implied the process in and of itself mutes the malt profile in a beer to my palate.

Note, I said "excessively". I believe Celebration Ale is dry-hopped as well, but it has a distinct and pleasant malt backbone that is quite perceivable. Now, if it was double or even quadruple dry-hopped...it's a different story. And there's a place for that as well, see Pliny the Elder and the Younger respectively.

 

Didn't take it as such, just saying there are a myriad of ways to make a beer taste good. Or f@#k it up.

 

Sorry about that! I quoted you in agreement, that dry-hopping can be well done in certain styles without being excessive, and add a nice dimension to it.

 

I think I agree and disagree with this - you are most conscious of the flavor contribution from the hops (I guess that's what they're going for, after all) but especially when trying some of these hop monsters side by side you really start to appreciate how the grain bill is still providing such a huge part of the flavor of the beer and it becomes much easier to pick out the characteristics.

All that said, it's a completely fair opinion to say you don't want to need to have to try two massive hop bombs next to each other to start picking up the true essence of the malt profile, not trying to discount that point, I just was blown away the first time I truly started to get a sense of the malt characteristics due to having an overabundance of "big" hoppy beers.

 

Which IPAs are you referring to, any examples?

I think it could depend on which ones we're discussing. Even though I mentioned the Pliny's, I've only had the Elder, and I'm not sure of the age on that one, it traveled with a buddy cross country who isn't obsessed with freshness. And I only mentioned those for reference to double/quadruple dry hopping, not necessarily as beers that have no perceivable malt characteristics.

I'm more referring to beers from Trillium, Treehouse...etc. The extremely turbid consumed within days of brewing hop bombs. Even Jack's Abby who makes IPLs will use American 2-row rather than German malts for their hoppy lagers due to a muted malt profile in these beers. Granted, these aren't exactly the types of beers I'm referencing in Trillium/Treehouse, the concept is similar.

 

One example that comes to mind because it was just such a crazy, pronounced effect was drinking Heady and Sip side by side. I've had a similar though less pronounced effect with Julius as well.

I actually liken it sort of to say really good Indian food (stay with me here). When you eat really spicy Indian food its easy to be overwhelmed by the spice but it's the underlying flavors that build a base for the overall experience being pleasant and not just a delivery mechanism for absurd spiciness, even if maybe the thing that comes to mind is that it's hot.

My conjecture - and it's hard to know for sure (though this has me thinking) is that the grain bill is a lot more integral than one might initially give credit for to the final experience. I'm sort of curious now to maybe do a clone of one of these and perhaps tweak the grain bill back to what one might consider to something more designed for a background role and see how they compare.

So yeah I guess I disagree with the statement that "you get virtually no flavor contribution from the malts" - but I think maybe what you are really getting at (and this is a completely correct) is that some of these beers make it difficult to pick out the contributions of the malts. Further than that, some might hold the opinion that they prefer beers that are more "balanced" - and that's one I can understand but don't necessarily agree with - but that's why there's lots of beers with all sorts of flavors.

 

I think it really depends on the IPA in question re: whether its malt bill properly supports the hops. I love Heady, and I think it has well crafted malt profile. It's certainly possible to have an absolute hop bomb of a beer that still has some malt, even if it plays a supporting role (a la Indian food, as you say ). Heady does that. Heck, even the cleaner, crisper, even "sharper" vibe of something like Pliny or Russian River's Blind Pig still has a malt character that I find complementary, even if it's incredibly toned down. That said, I feel like I've run across some beers lately - from multiple parts of the US - where the malt bill seems either so non-existent, or so illsuited, that it ends up hurting the beer. To wit, as much as I love Heady, I don't love their Citra-laden Focal Banger, because I think the malt bill is way too skimpy, too pale, too hollow. On the other coast, a lot of folks have been loving Noble Ale Works hoppy brews, particular their Citra/Mosaic/etc. Showers series. To me, the malt bill is just too characterless and thin, giving the beers a very harsh, shrill vibe.

All to say, I agree the malt bills of some of these hop bombs do matter, even if they're barely noticeable. I don't think @AlcahueteJ was necessarily disagreeing either. I think what we are perhaps agreeing on is the particular examples of hoppy beer -- and this is probably as true for, say, pilsners as it is for IPAs -- where the malt has either been so abandoned, or so poorly crafted, as to create a one dimensional beer. I know folks might laugh, but beers like Pliny -- hopped to high hell as they are -- aren't one dimensional to my palate. A good pils should be the same. Even amongst beers that do, indeed, focus on one part of the brewing equation (i.e., hops).

 

I suppose that's a fair point - and I agree on Focal Banger.

 

“All to say, I agree the malt bills of some of these hop bombs do matter, even if they're barely noticeable.”

As a homebrewer perhaps I can add some ‘perspective’ to this discussion.

Maybe there is it a fine line between the descriptors of “barely noticeable” to the term “plays a supporting role”.

When I homebrew my American style IPAs I purposefully select a base malt that is more on the ‘neutral’ side (e.g., North American 2-row malt) but I do add a small amount of lightly roasted crystal malt to provide just a touch of ‘character’. The concept is to add just enough malt backbone to provide a sense of balance to the hoppy beer.

When a beer has insufficient malt backbone the absence of the malt presence will indeed be noticed. The terms of “hollow” and “out of balance” would be applicable in these circumstances.

I have read numerous times on BA threads that it is “easy” to brew hoppy beers like IPAs since the generous use of hops ‘hide’ flaws. I disagree with this thought. It takes masterful skill to brew a beer like a West Coast style IPA since the brewer is looking to produce a beer which features the hops yet has a proper malt backbone to provide overall cohesion to the beer.

Cheers!

 

Dry January is over and I'm ready to light a fire under some of these sleepy threads!

Okay, maybe I'm not that gung-ho, but... Picked up some Metropolitan Flywheel tonight. They don't date their bottles too well (at all?), but on first pour I could really smell the fresh, doughy malt in this beer; unlike any other U.S.-brewed German-style lager I know. Great spicy, bitter hops and clean finish begs for glass after glass.

On to an old favorite next: Anchor Steam -- yum.

Taking time out from beer may be healthy, but there's something very comforting and relaxing in drinking a good beer. Prosit friends!