Sunday Sales in Minnesota: Moving Forward

Discussion in 'Great Lakes' started by Chaz, May 21, 2016.

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  1. Chaz

    Chaz Grand Pooh-Bah (3,668) Feb 3, 2002 Minnesota
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Sunday Sales in Minnesota: Moving Forward

    For background, see this recent thread:
    http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/mn-sunday-sales.387720/


    Forward:
    I am no longer employed at retail, and neither drink as much nor as often as I did in my youth, and I do not entertain at home. As such, "I don't have a dog in this fight" as the saying goes. However...

    In private discussions I have maintained --and my opinion can't be too controversial-- that constructive efforts go much further, especially in creating a spirit of community, than do efforts to impugn the character or integrity of an individual or his/her employer -- more on that later.

    Craft and Specialty Beer in Minnesota circa 2016

    What a time to be alive! Seriously, folks.

    Between Minnesota's burgeoning beer industry and the availability of packaged beer at retail, our beer market ranks among the best in the country. But from the standpoint of maximum consumer choice, the Minnesota marketplace is far from the ideal that we would like it to be.

    Here are two rhetorical questions:

    Why is it that we can't buy full strength beer, wine, and liquor in a retail setting on a Sunday?

    Why have there been so few outward expressions of support for Sunday Sales on 'beer social media', such as the forums on this very website (Beer Advocate), Rate Beer, 'reddit', and so forth?

    Pre-2016: Challenges to the Status Quo
    In 2016 the State of Minnesota has seen more than a decade of efforts to change state law as it pertains to breweries, especially at the Craft Beer level.

    The fact is, these efforts have been mostly successful ones, and relatively recent legal changes have benefited both small breweries and brewpubs, as well as larger-scale breweries. For the benefit of the (conversational) tone I have set out on I will here refer to these changes by their colloquial, rather than their legal names: The 2001 - 2006 "Growler Bills", and the 2011 "Surly Bill."

    As a result of the passage of these laws, both Craft Beer breweries and consumers are better off for these changes to state law. Essentially, we all benefit from more choice and a stronger consumer economy, along with more tax dollars benefited, an increase in the total number of jobs, and so forth.

    But we are now five or six years into the active efforts to change the laws pertaining to Sunday Sales, and the average everyday 'Joe or Jane Craft Beer-lover' is still behind the eight ball on this issue. Harried Thirtysomething parents and hard-partying college students alike find themselves forced to distraction and exasperation as they put wear-and-tear on their Prius, beat-up Volvo or family truckster, and dedicate one day a week to spend their hard-earned dollars at retailers in Wisconsin, Iowa, or North and South Dakota.

    Why do they have to go to that extra effort?

    Why is this issue so hotly-contested, and why are these laws so entrenched?

    Recent Events
    in 2016, efforts to change existing state law, and to thereby allow a new, more reasonable approach to the issue of Sunday Sales at retail have once again been struck-down at the state level. This was a huge blow to many, especially as they have been campaigning tirelessly to affect this particular change.

    One Minnesota brewery (LTD Brewery) even brewed and packaged a small batch beer in support of Sunday Sales - Sunday Sales Pale Ale, bolstering last minute awareness of the issue at the state level:

    [​IMG]

    Ongoing Efforts
    Proponents of Sunday Sales have cited polling data suggesting that an overwhelming majority of the public support Sunday Sales in Minnesota.

    I am not a professional pollster, let alone a mathematician or demographer, but this data would suggest that 2/3rds of the licensed beverage retailers in the State of Minnesota -- hundreds of retailers -- support the idea of Sunday Sales.

    While these are family owned, single-unit ("mom n' pop") retailers, there can be no doubt that hundreds more zoned retail (convenience store, grocery, co-ops, other) locations are also in favor of Sunday Sales.

    Opposition to Sunday Sales

    So why does the measure fail each year, at the State level?

    While I am no longer in beverage retail, I have heard countless tales told and re-told, of retailers who are generally on-board with Sunday Sales but who won't speak up for fear of reprisal -- mainly by being short-ordered or back-ordered on items ordered and which are delivered by their wholesale suppliers.

    Granted, these stories are "re-tells", and thus unsubstantiated, but there is a ring of truth to them.

    So what are the facts regarding opposition to Sunday Sales? I don't know, but I welcome those who have a timeline of the opposition to make such a timeline public, and bring all of this to light.

    In the meantime, the polling data suggest that the general public is in favor of Sunday Sales.

    Controversy and Public Backlash
    Very recently, the beer buyer for a well-known specialty beer retailer engaged in an exchange concerning the topic of Sunday Sales in Minnesota, on a popular social media platform. Those who followed this exchange recognize that it wasn't an altogether friendly one, and it became less friendly, still, in subsequent ancillary exchanges.

    I am not in a position to lecture anyone on social graces or proper etiquette. Far from it!

    I will, however, suggest that that there's a better way to get your point across to the 14% of the undecided public. To my mind, almost any approach would be more productive than engaging in a Twitter exchange singling-out an individual retailer (and employee) who does not agree with you on a particular topic.

    Public Backlash and Outcome
    Was this individual in the wrong? Was the retailer? Just as in the instance of retailers hiking the price on limited availability retail placements of Surly's outrageously-popular Darkness, this is a matter for each of us to decide for ourselves, as individual consumers.

    Meanwhile, let's get back to making an effort to move forward. Principally, make an effort to showcase the benefits to the economy which Sunday Sales will have. Likewise, support those retailers who DO actively support Sunday Sales in Minnesota.

    Benefits to the Minnesota Economy of Sunday Sales
    What possible benefits could be derived from Sunday Sales in Minnesota?

    The following list is based based on suggestions I've seen made by others:
    - Free Markets Decide
    - Increase to Tax Base
    - Increase in Jobs Base
    - Increase in Beer Tourism (IMPORTANT!)
    - Increase in Public Pride*

    If you feel like adding to this list or elaborating in any way, by all means do so!

    (* "Reduction in the shame Minnesotans feel at living in a backward, Parochial Flyover State", didn't fit comfortably on that line. ^_^ )

    Open Support for Sunday Sales at Retail -- A List of Retailers

    So far there are at least several dozen beverage retailers (some with multiple locations) that have expressed an above-board opinion in favor of Sunday Sales. The list below is only a partial example of said support:

    - Booze Mart (West St Paul)
    - Stinson Wine, Beer, and Spirits (Minneapolis)
    - Total Wine - Six Locations in Minnesota
    - Chicago-Lake Liquor (Minneapolis)
    - Ace Wine and Spirits (Hopkins)
    - Vom Fass - Mall of America (Bloomington)
    - Liquor Boy (St Louis Park)
    - Bayport Liquor (Bayport)
    - Hollywood Roadhouse - on - and - off-sale (New Germany)
    - St. Anthony Village Wine And Spirits - two locations (St. Anthony Village)
    - On The Rocks Wine and Spirits (Hugo)

    -- from the "Sunday Sales Pale Ale" screen shot:
    - Mac's Liquors (Hopkins)
    - Liquor Store And More (Hopkins)
    - US Liquor and Wine (Minnetonka)
    - GV Liquor Barrel (Golden Valley)
    - Bottle Stop Crystal (Crystal)
    - Old Vine Wine And Spirits (MOA / Bloomington)
    - Booze Mart (West St. Paul) -- duplicate listing (see above)

    I encourage everyone who reads this to "vote with your dollars" as it were, and likewise encourage everyone to add to the list, above. Perhaps even create a database? (Not me. My skillz can't pay the bills, yo.)

    Final Suggestion

    This will sound like a very trite thing to say, but:

    Be proactive. Specifically, focus on the positive aspects of change.

    There is resistance to change, and this is no less true whether it's considered as a universal concept or as it pertains to Sunday Sales in Minnesota. But focus on the larger goal at hand: changing the minds of those members of the voting public who are undecided, and who will then bring their concerns to their elected representatives.

    Ultimately, it's only a matter of time before Sunday Sales is a day-to-day reality in Minnesota, and it's important to prepare for that reality. To my mind it's certainly more important to take a positive approach to the issue than it is to engage in a back-and-forth with those who presently don't agree with you and who may never agree with you on this particular issue.

    I sincerely hope that those who see this change as progress for the public good can work together in a forthright and productive manner to promote the change they believe in, while also being respectful to those who happen to disagree with their efforts, and who are also in the minority of the voting population of the state of Minnesota.

    Resources:
    Minnesota Beer Activists
    Sunday Sales Minnesota
    Sunday Sales Pale Ale (additional information)
     
    stinsonwbs, MNHazmat, sembo and 5 others like this.
  2. cmannes

    cmannes Pundit (967) Mar 15, 2009 Minnesota

    So to support Sunday Sales I should shop at Total Wine? :slight_smile:

    [Personally I have no issues with Total Wine, and I shop there, and my local shop (Princeton's) I'm just posting this because of the vitriol I've seen for TW around here.]
     
    Chaz likes this.
  3. morimech

    morimech Grand Pooh-Bah (3,803) Nov 6, 2006 Minnesota
    Pooh-Bah

    Not taking a side here but a few observations.

    LTD who do not understand the current growler law is against no off sale of alcohol on Sunday. A bit ironic. I asked at a retailer why the Sunday Sale Ale was over $10 for a 750ml of a 5.5% ABV pale ale and was told I better get use to it because if Sunday sales passes all beer prices will go up $2 a bottle or 6-pack. Then I asked if this was a protest beer against Sunday sales as that is the impression I was receiving. Then was given another lecture on boogey man economics. Just how much money is being giving to the movement and how is it being used? I like the people at LTD but they got to pull their collective heads out of their asses and make things clear.
     
    burlyb, ZAP and thatguyfromwork like this.
  4. KiddVideo

    KiddVideo Initiate (0) Jun 19, 2015 Minnesota

    Not taking sides? LOL.
     
  5. MNBeerGeek

    MNBeerGeek Initiate (0) Jun 25, 2013 Minnesota

    Pointing out their clear misunderstanding of the law doesn't necessarily equate to taking sides. Perhaps their heads are really that far up their asses... :grinning:
     
  6. maximum12

    maximum12 Grand Pooh-Bah (4,686) Jan 21, 2008 Minnesota
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    mnbearsfan likes this.
  7. KarlHungus

    KarlHungus Grand Pooh-Bah (3,315) Feb 19, 2005 Minnesota
    Pooh-Bah

    The problem with Sunday sales not getting through the legislature is the lobbying by the MLBA. That group represents both bars and liquor stores, and bars constitute a vast majority of its members (something like 2/3rds if memory serves me). So even if every liquor store was in favor of Sunday sales the MLBA would still most likely be lobbying against it as bars don't want the competition.

    We need to do more than just vote with our dollars at retail stores, and actually talk to our legislators. Convincing them is the only way Sunday sales will pass.
     
    Chaz and Victory_Sabre1973 like this.
  8. Chaz

    Chaz Grand Pooh-Bah (3,668) Feb 3, 2002 Minnesota
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    But what about the MMBA?

    Oh yeah, I forgot: Their position is very clear on Sunday Sales.

    P.S. Hake a look at their Platinum, Gold, Silver, Bronze, and Supporting members.
     
    #8 Chaz, May 22, 2016
    Last edited: May 22, 2016
  9. Bobandy

    Bobandy Initiate (0) May 13, 2015 Iowa

    I live about equal distance from Rochester, La Crosse, and Waterloo/Cedar Falls. When I grocery shop on Sundays, I almost never go to Rochester, simply because I'm often looking for new beers that aren't distributed in the smaller towns of NE IA, and I can't get beer on Sunday. I realize that's anecdotal as hell, but I know a lot of other guys who do the same.

    I think sales on Vikings game days would be huge as well.

    This law is absolutely insane, as well as Minnesota's refusal to sell full strength beer/wine/liquor in grocery stores or gas stations, and at such limited hours.
     
    Victory_Sabre1973 likes this.
  10. ZAP

    ZAP Grand Pooh-Bah (4,048) Dec 1, 2001 Minnesota
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    The 3.2 law has to go too. And my guess is it would when Sunday sales are approved. I never buy 3.2 beer except on rare occasions (Sunday, friends coming over at last minute who don't like craft)...when I am forced to I buy Light beer as it is pretty close to 3.2 by weight anyhow and not much different. Might be the same beer actually.
     
    Victory_Sabre1973 likes this.
  11. muck1979

    muck1979 Zealot (555) Jul 3, 2005 Minnesota

    Wait, what?
     
    CMLinder likes this.
  12. morimech

    morimech Grand Pooh-Bah (3,803) Nov 6, 2006 Minnesota
    Pooh-Bah

    I did show a bit of bias. But I know BS when I hear it and do not appreciate receiving it from either side.
     
  13. rpcarlsen

    rpcarlsen Initiate (0) Nov 3, 2011 Minnesota

    From Edina City Manager Scott Neal

    Our 2011 projected sales per day is $43,540. Our 2011 projected operating costs per day are $40,190. If you do the math, the difference between these two numbers multiplied by the number of days we will be open in 2011 (307) will equal our projected net operating income for 2011: $1,028,591.

    If the Legislature changes the law on Sunday sales, it will be difficult for us not to be open on Sundays, so I will assume in this hypothetical that our stores would be open for 52 additional days in 2011. If we further assume that our projected 2011 daily operating costs of $40,190 would not be materially different on Sundays, we would add 52 more days of operating costs at $40,190/day to our annual operating cost totals. This would increase our projected annual operating costs in 2011 by $2,089,729 from $12,338,481 to $14,428,210; an increase of 16.9%.

    Edina must have a hell of a deal (and a city manager who is terrible at math). Apparently they don't pay any building related expenses right now on Sunday (rent, property taxes, utilities, insurance) so an additional day would be a fully burdened cost. That's odd. Also, their math looks like they included their inventory costs in their operating costs. So while many would figure that inventory would turn 1/7 faster - assuming level loaded sales - they would be converting inventory to cash faster, but they view it as an additional expense.

    How do people not see through this crap?
     
  14. Douggo

    Douggo Initiate (0) Oct 24, 2009 Minnesota

    Agreed. Convincing undecided voters to join us in opinion polls is not going to do it. This issue is a really, really, really, really, really big deal to a small minority, who will hassle their representatives. But for most of the masses on the other side, it's really not worth typing an email over.
     
  15. SipIt

    SipIt Pundit (752) Jul 18, 2013 Minnesota
    Trader

    Don't forget about the extra fee that Scott is going to charge now that he has to manage the managers, managers assistant 52 days more a year. :wink:
     
    Benj68 and Victory_Sabre1973 like this.
  16. Centinela

    Centinela Initiate (0) Apr 25, 2014 Minnesota

    Link?
     
  17. maximum12

    maximum12 Grand Pooh-Bah (4,686) Jan 21, 2008 Minnesota
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Twitter, @bluemaxbeers. If you can link to Twitter on the Net, I'm too old to know how to do it.
     
    Centinela likes this.
  18. Chaz

    Chaz Grand Pooh-Bah (3,668) Feb 3, 2002 Minnesota
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Heck, I'm even older than you. I bought my phone from Consumer Cellular. :wink:
    I had rather hoped that this thread would emphasize constructive efforts to move forward, and discussing ways to work with others (including those at local, State, and legislative level) to resolve the issue.

    On the other hand, this is Beer Advocate, after all, and Jim Sebring is all out of bubblegum:

    [​IMG]
     
    maximum12 and Douggo like this.
  19. poypoyking

    poypoyking Initiate (0) Oct 9, 2015 Minnesota

    I don't care one way or the other. It isn't that hard for me to plan my beer purchases accordingly so I don't need to make a Sunday run.
     
    thatguyfromwork and HammsMeASAP like this.
  20. Douggo

    Douggo Initiate (0) Oct 24, 2009 Minnesota

    I don't know why this opinion drives me so insane. It's a reasonable opinion. It's a popular opinion. So why does it bother me? Is there an air of superiority to it? "I can remember to buy beer on Saturday[, you dumbass]!"
    Is it the fact that opposition to Sunday sales absolutely depends upon this opinion's popularity? This is the reason we can't have nice things...
     
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