Retailers/Distributors/Breweries. Who Kills Fresh Beer?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by DrLasers, Jan 4, 2017.

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  1. DrLasers

    DrLasers Devotee (374) Apr 18, 2011 California

    Good point. That is the thing though, when supply exceeds demand and results in stale beer the amount of customers will continually decline.

    For example, I was at a Navy function/holiday party recently that had a lot of family members and visitors from out of town. As usual Ballast Point and other San Diego Beers were in rotation on a pretty elaborate spread. I picked a Sculpin out of the ice bucket and knew from the first sip it was old. I tried a few others that I am familiar with and the same result. Everyone was drinking the beers but I doubt it made a lasting impression on any potential customers.

    2 years ago it would not even be an issue here.
     
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  2. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam


    A small step.

    When I shop for beer I have a list of alternative. If I see a beer I'd like to buy I check the date. If there is no date, if I can't decipher the date, or the beer is out of code, I put it back on the shelf and buy something else. Hyena when I get home I send mail to the brewery telling them why I didn't buy their beer and whose beer I bought instead. Since in PA still sells most beer by the case I also mention I was shopping for a case of beer and wasn't buying their case of beer. Does it work? No way to know for sure but I can think of at least two local breweries who now do date their beer.
     
  3. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Congratulations on the diligence you use in tracking your stock.

    Also curious about something.

    In PA cases come to the retailer still sealed as shipped by the brewery. Brewers package cases from the same bottling run so all are packed at the same time and then the case is sealed. Many breweries date the case with bottling date or BB date. Why would you need to open a sealed, dated case to check every bottle?

    Can't you just refuse delivery on an unsealed case? Can't you just refuse to buy cases from a brewery that ships out undated cases? Can't you just refuse to stock beers purchased through a Distributor who repeatedly sends you out of code beer? Can't you just put a tick mark on a refused case to ensure that a Distributor who ships you beer that is too old can't get away with simply re-sending you that same old case?

    Seem like it would be less work than the arduous task of having to deal with returning something after the fact.
     
    #63 drtth, Jan 5, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
  4. metsfansour

    metsfansour Initiate (0) Feb 23, 2015 Connecticut

    though it's not always that simple. First you have the brewers enjoy by date vs the increasingly more stringent customer enjoy by date. second most stores are financially handcuffed in reducing prices there is not a lot of pure profit to be made in beer a six pack that cost you 9.99 the store probably made 2.50 on. if a distributor won't help switch out old stock for new or a brewery won't then the store eats that cost. Also some states mine included have a minimum price that items can be sold at usually a little above or at cost of the item. A store could try and sell the beers that are close to that date as singles but that leads to a shelf of old dead single beers that start pilling up. It's a bad situation that doesn't have an easy answer
     
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  5. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,071) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Yeah, well --- there is that "assumption" :rolling_eyes: I'd call it more of a "pipe dream". Most every brewer wishes his beer was stored cold once it hit retail (many require it of their wholesale distributors - or say they do), contrary to the reality in most retail establishments, to the point of thinking,
    "Do these guy EVER buy beer in the real world?"

    I'd guess "150 days" is the standard rule for SN distributors, regardless of storage temps. And a "rule" oft ignored, as well.
     
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  6. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,071) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Your store gets open (i.e., unsealed - brewery-glued flaps broken) cases of mixed date codes from your wholesalers? :astonished: No one - brewer, wholesaler, retailer, customer - expects that every bottle is checked for freshness. Nor are breweries typically mixing dates within a single case of a single beer* as the bottles/cans come off the line.

    * Obviously mixed/variety 12 pks and cases are put together differently.
     
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  7. BergBeer

    BergBeer Maven (1,405) Aug 21, 2013 Hawaii

    Lots of good talk here so not too much to contribute but I'll give my 2 cents for what it is worth.

    Alcohol is a very cut throat business from my experience. Sales especially is very competitive. There is plenty of times where I've been told X beer is out of stock while the liquor store down the road has it in stock. Meanwhile that liquor store has shelf beer piled up by the cases. My boss has told me multiple times to blindly buy cases in order to get into good standing with such and such distributor.

    In my experience this leads to perfectly good beer getting cast aside in order to get one highly sought after beer. This leads to it getting shoved in the back and hidden. Only seeing the light of day when we are low on product.

    This leads to distro guys off loading "shelf beer" to liquor stores. To OP I noticed you were getting a "shelf" ballast point beer. Unfortunately you probably got a keg that didn't move when they ordered too many.
     
  8. zizouandyuki

    zizouandyuki Initiate (0) Nov 26, 2015 Texas

    I'm surprised that Firestone Walker hasn't been mentioned in this thread. They have a great initiative underway for maintaining fresh beer on the shelves.

    Firstly, checkout this link where you can report expired beer.

    Secondly, on BeerSmith's Podcast - Episode #139, Matt Brynildson (FW Brewmaster) said that they're going to be pulling each version of Luponic Distortion out of the market every 90-days and rotating in the newest version of the series. Skip to 00:30:10 in the Podcast to hear his take on freshness.

    I'm curious to know how this is being worked out with the distributors and retailers. Nevertheless, it would be great to see more large-scale craft breweries make a similar effort to put fresh beer on the shelves.
     
  9. SmittyinUpstate

    SmittyinUpstate Devotee (359) Aug 27, 2015 Arizona


    I'm on a private forum where this is done and it's great, however, it's not for beer. There are so many stores, the lists would be massive. Not sure it would work.
     
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  10. BillManley

    BillManley Pundit (825) Jul 2, 2008 North Carolina

    There is a pretty interesting dichotomy here too... Have you ever heard the phrase "On the floor, out the door"?
    In many retail outlets (i.e. grocery) the "goal" is to get a warm floor display because the odds are, as a shopper is walking past the display (which is also typically on a deal) the sheer volume of sales will increase due to visibility--maybe by tenfold.
    In many cases--in regard to freshness--I'd prefer to buy my beer in a 12-pack from a floor display at a grocery store during a holiday sale because the velocity of sales virtually guarantees that the beer will be fresher.
    This is sort of an unspoken exception to the cold-storage rule... everybody wants their beer stored cold, except at the point of purchase if it means the foot traffic will boost volume.

    Side-story anecdote..., (this freaked me out the first time I heard it)...one of the best "display areas" in grocery is next to the hot rotisserie chicken spinners because that gets a lot of customer attention. People are weird, man. There is a dark art solely dedicated to purchasing habits that seems like voodoo to me.
     
  11. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    How successful are you at getting the old beer removed by the distributors? Does this happen like 50% of the time? Is it a function of the particular distributors (e.g., Distributor A will take back old beer but Distributor B won't)?

    Cheers!
     
  12. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Bill, the majority of the beer at my local Wegman's store is on shelves (warm).

    They do place some cases on the floor but they are typically for limited brands and they are piled up such that I am willing to bet that the beers on the bottom of the pile do not sell for quite some time.

    As a beer customer both of these 'displays' is less than optimum.

    Cheers!

    P.S. There are a few coolers where beer is stored cold but the selection is limited and as a consumer I have no idea whether those beers were continuously stored cold or if they were stock that was sitting under a pile on the floor for x months.
     
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  13. AZBeerDude72

    AZBeerDude72 Initiate (0) Jun 10, 2016 Arizona

    That was one issue I figured could happen. The amount of stores and locations, etc. I guess maybe some form of abbreviated list could work such as top 3 stores in specific area or top state stores. It just seems like with the wealth of knowledge here we have the info just how to present it in a simplified manor to assist people but not create a mess of work, lol. I guess we all can do our own homework and but it would be cool to somehow promote or reward the good shops with positive feed, maybe in time it would force others to act the same way and in effect eliminate some issues we all see.
     
  14. DrLasers

    DrLasers Devotee (374) Apr 18, 2011 California

    Thanks for all of the insight fellas. I emailed the store manager about the situation and she quickly contacted the distributor and BP rep (she is awesome like that). They immediately sent out a "guaranteed fresh keg" that I'll pick up today. Hopefully this will start some dialogue and some attention to the matter.

    I will report back.
     
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  15. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Please do!!

    Cheers!

    P.S. I would be interested in knowing exactly what "guaranteed fresh keg" means.
     
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  16. donspublic

    donspublic Grand Pooh-Bah (3,478) Aug 4, 2014 Texas
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Perhaps "Shit busted, here you go try this"
     
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  17. gibgink

    gibgink Pooh-Bah (1,581) Oct 27, 2014 Missouri
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Short worded answer as to who kills fresh beer? The consumer.

    Using the OP's IPA as the example, there was a time when Ballast Point was "killing" it. They would churn out tons of a particular beer and consumers would clamor for it, buying it whenever they could. As the beer was selling out, the brewer then pumped it out in greater and greater quantities, keeping up with demand.

    Then a couple things happened. A "new" IPA came out. Consumers stopped clamoring for Ballast Point, and turned their attention elsewhere. What did the brewery do? Nothing. They kept churning out the same quantities. The distributors then shipped out to the retailers who no longer sold the product at the same rate. When it finally came time for the retailer to restock on the IPA, they get bottles that are now quite old.

    I haven't been into beer as long as many of you out there, but I've come to see it more and more often. New "it" beer comes out and is really hard to find. 6 months later, its a shelf turd.
     
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  18. mudbug

    mudbug Pooh-Bah (1,738) Mar 27, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah Society

    I've spoken to the retailers and they (except one, Newport Liquors) had NO IDEA that beer could go stale, they let the distributor stock the shelves, nor do they seem inclined to take on the extra work involved with monitoring.
     
  19. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    I have a differing take here. It is not the responsibility of the consumer to ensure they obtain the product they want (fresh beer in this situation) from a given brewery. It is the responsibility of the business(es) to fulfill customer demands.

    As you stated: "What did the brewery do? Nothing." If the business does not 'adapt' (i.e., do something) to fulfill customer demands then the situation will continue (or accelerate) and the worst case scenario is that the business will go out of business.

    These are very competitive times for production craft breweries and if individual breweries are poor at meeting customer demands they will suffer.

    Cheers!
     
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  20. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Total Wine & More does this because their 'business plan' is to accept free labor from the distributors. There is plenty of 'old' beer on the shelves of Total Wine & More and personally I am convinced that this is the consequence of accepting (demanding?) free labor.

    Cheers!
     
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