21st Amendment--brewed in Memphis? A "drink local" dilemma

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by elNopalero, Oct 1, 2012.

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  1. elNopalero

    elNopalero Grand Pooh-Bah (4,568) Oct 14, 2009 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    I already knew that 21st Amendment contract brewed their beers, but in Minnesota at Cold Springs. However, on the can of Brew Free or Die I had tonight I noticed it said it was hand crafted and canned in Memphis, TN. Are they brewing and bottling (well, canning) in two separate locations now?

    And more for a discussion, I'm still conflicted about contract brewing--while I really don't have a problem with gypsy brewers (a la the recent 'skin in the game' conversation) or contract brewing on principle this usually translates to "as long as the beer is good." (As in, if the beer is lousy then contract/gypsy brewing = buuuu.) But what about being an environmentally conscious drinker? If I'm in SF then 21A is a local brewer--but only at the brewpub. Otherwise they are shipping their beer halfway across the country. Cans cut down on the impact but its still a long distance. Where's the "local" in this situation (and I'm sure they're not the only one--am I correct in thinking that the iconic Sam Adams isn't brewed in Boston?)--San Francisco at the brewpub (but only on tap), Minnesota, or Tennessee?
     
  2. kpacedo

    kpacedo Initiate (0) Nov 24, 2009 California

    Not too terrible of a quandary since their beer isn't that good...
     
  3. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,071) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
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  4. yemenmocha

    yemenmocha Grand Pooh-Bah (4,092) Jun 18, 2002 Arizona
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    Maybe the problem lies in the "buy local" line of thinking...

    I hope you don't drink coffee from other countries, or orange juice in the winter that comes from Brazil, etc.
     
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  5. jmw

    jmw Initiate (0) Feb 4, 2009 North Carolina

    Nothing wrong with being aware of the footprint that your choices leave behind.
     
  6. mudbug

    mudbug Pooh-Bah (1,738) Mar 27, 2009 Oregon
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    If the recipe can be faithfully reproduced what does it matter where its done? A great chef is still a great chef no matter where he cooks, a great painter can paint anywhere. Contract brewing makes great sense environmentally as it lessens the impact of transportation and delivers fresher product.
     
  7. jtmartino

    jtmartino Initiate (0) Dec 11, 2010 California

    Except for the fact that all of our cans here in California, including the ones sold down the street from 21A, come from the Midwest.

    It has nothing to do with 21A being environmentally conscious. It has everything to do with money.
     
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  8. thebigredone

    thebigredone Pooh-Bah (1,592) Dec 19, 2011 Wisconsin
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    You are correct about Sam Adams. Just did the brewery tour a couple days ago. Their Boston brewery is tiny, and only brews their hand-bottled beers (American Kriek, New World Triple, etc.). They also have breweries in Pennsylvania and somewhere else where they brew all other beers.
     
  9. bryanole27

    bryanole27 Initiate (0) Jun 24, 2011 North Carolina

    I guess I just never thought of 'drink local' in that respect. I 'drink local' to support local businesses and my friends. Now it just so happens that they are small local breweries, not widely distributed contract stuff, so two birds with one stone I guess.
     
  10. MLucky

    MLucky Initiate (0) Jul 31, 2010 California

    The same recipe won't produce the same results when using different equipment. And the analogy of a great chef going to a different kitchen isn't really accurate: contract brewing usually means turning over the entire project to another brewery, not having your people brew the beer on another company's equipment. And when you hire people to do a job like that, you sometimes don't get the same care and attention to detail you would give it yourself. In the case of small breweries contracting relatively small orders from larger breweries, the chances of a subpar job go up.

    This is not to say all contract beers are subpar. But I would say there are good reasons why many of us consider it a less than ideal practice.
     
  11. Mohican88

    Mohican88 Initiate (0) Jan 20, 2010 Ohio

    Cincinnati is the other SA brewery. Wouldn't be shocked to see them expand westward in the next 5 years or so.
     
  12. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,071) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
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    That'd be the former Schoenling brewery in Cincinnati, now technically known as the Samuel Adams Brewery Co. (I guess 'cause "Boston" didn't sound right in Ohio). Hudepohl-Schoenling had been one of BBC's contract-brewers when BBC bought the place in the mid-90's. It was also one of several Ohio breweries where Jim Koch's father had brewed professionally.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. John_M

    John_M Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,275) Oct 25, 2003 Washington
    Super Mod Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Completely agree. This is my take as well. The problem, of course, is whether the recipe is (or can be) faithfully reproduced elsewhere. Assuming it is (or can be), then it doesn't matter to me what facility the brewer chooses to use to make his beer.
     
  14. mudbug

    mudbug Pooh-Bah (1,738) Mar 27, 2009 Oregon
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    Mlucky said, "The same recipe won't produce the same results when using different equipment"
    I think you may get an argument from the three biggest producers of beer out there plus Sierra Nevada and others. I defy anyone to accurately pinpoint where their Bud came from. And I'm very sure that a brewer worth his salt can reproduce a perfected recipe well within the normal batch variation.
     
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  15. 30-06pack

    30-06pack Initiate (0) Jul 26, 2012 Pennsylvania

    This is something to pay attention to, but judging by how awesome my last 4 pack of Hops Crisis was, QC doesn't seem to be a problem.
     
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  16. afrokaze

    afrokaze Pooh-Bah (1,933) Jun 12, 2009 Oregon
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    I'm still mad nobody bought Monk's Blood and I can't have it anymore.
     
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  17. John_M

    John_M Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,275) Oct 25, 2003 Washington
    Super Mod Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    I'm not entirely sure that's the best example ("this bud tastes more bland, less flavorful, more watery, and/or less crappy than the bud I had back in {name your favorite part of the US}").

    That being said, I've seen some past articles from AB in which they mention that achieving product consistency is one of the most difficult chores for them, and is apparently something they take considerable pride over (in fairness, I think they have every right to be proud of this accomplishment). So I'm not sure it's something to take lightly, or to assume that because they're able to do it, any other brewery in the land should be able to do the same with little difficulty. I'm not saying it's impossible to achieve, but my impression is that it may be more difficult than your post suggests.
     
  18. otispdriftwood

    otispdriftwood Initiate (0) Dec 9, 2011 Colorado

    To add my $.02, the reason that pizza is supposedly better in NYC is because of the water. Well, since water is the base ingredient in brewing, it would follow that if the water is different, the beer will be different, no matter how you try to filter it to make it consistent. The difference may only be discernable to an expert, but there would be a difference.
     
  19. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,611) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
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    A brewery like AB or a Sierra Nevada can adjust the water.

    Sierra Nevada chose to locate the 2nd brewery near Asheville for many reasons, one was for the water quality. They will have water with low mineral content, and it should be easy for them to adjust.

    Some breweries use RO water and adjust with salts (FW) or blend with the tap water (Stone).
    I would bet good money that when you walk into an AB brewery, the equipment would be the same as the last one you walked into.

    As Sierra Nevada builds the second brewery, you could bet good money that they will have a Huppmann manufactured brew house to be consistant with Chico.

    Having the same equipment makes the job easier. They will also use the same processes on that equipment.
     
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  20. jtmartino

    jtmartino Initiate (0) Dec 11, 2010 California

    It's much easier to stay consistent when a single brewery has the technology and equipment budget of all the smaller guys combined.

    Regarding the water: Budweiser breweries take tap water and strip it of chemicals and minerals (via filtration.) They then add their own minerals which can be easily measured to get the same base water used by all of their plants. This same technology is used by other breweries like Deschutes, so it really doesn't matter much where the water comes from.
     
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