Firestone Walker Introduces The Leo v. Ursus Chronology

Discussion in 'Beer Releases' started by hutch98, Jan 23, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    It's really quite simple. If filtering "strips out flavor," you simply build more flavor into the recipe and process pre-filtration. Just like you build in more grain to account for lower efficiency. If the resulting beer is where you want it, then all is well.
     
    moose1980, zid and TongoRad like this.
  2. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    I am not a commercial brewer so take what I have to say with a grain of salt. It seems to be that the large(r) breweries use DE filters (which was previously discussed). There are other filter systems available. A brewpub local to me uses a series of paper elements for filtering. There are likely other filter systems that could be used.

    Cheers!
     
  3. TongoRad

    TongoRad Grand Pooh-Bah (3,848) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    My best guess would be that it will be on a case by case basis, but that's only speculation. The tweet I saw had no real specifics in it.

    Maybe @bulletrain76 would be willing to expand a bit?
     
  4. TongoRad

    TongoRad Grand Pooh-Bah (3,848) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    It would all depend on the end product, but in the old days it would be DE for coarse filtration (keg product that still had to be kept cold) and then a sterile plate filter (.5 micron) for bottles. These days with finings and centrifuges, I'm not so sure anymore.
     
    herrburgess likes this.
  5. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    I have seen a lot of coarser filtration (with DE or even plate filters) followed by polish (with plate or lenticular). Also a lot of just one of those by itself. Pretty widespread use of biofine clear, as well. Needless to say, but centrifuges are pretty expensive.
     
    #25 herrburgess, Feb 1, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2017
    TongoRad likes this.
  6. RBassSFHOPit2ME

    RBassSFHOPit2ME Initiate (0) Mar 1, 2009 California
    Deactivated

    Unfiltered IPAs are SO HOT right now. Unfiltered IPAs....
     
    RBCBrams17 and zid like this.
  7. beardown2489

    beardown2489 Pooh-Bah (1,892) Oct 5, 2012 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah Society

    I love where FW is going. I think they were smart to rethink how they attack the current market of craft beer.

    We know craft beer fans want new stuff all the time and I think FW is going to do very well with this new strategy.

    Firestone Walker is one of the absolute best breweries on the country and I hope this new strategy reminds craft beer fans of that
     
    RBassSFHOPit2ME likes this.
  8. pro100

    pro100 Zealot (543) Oct 12, 2014 California

    I'm on it
     
  9. bulletrain76

    bulletrain76 Maven (1,287) Nov 6, 2007 California

    We are indeed installing a centrifuge right now, but this beer will be 100% unfined and unfiltered. There will be some protein/tannin haze but our yeast is quite flocculent and there will not be much in the finished beer. We are also installing a new DE filter which is much better than the one we have been using basically forever. Lots more automation control and bigger/faster. DE is the standard for bright beer with minimal flavor impact and there is still really no competition. A centrifuge can't give you stable bright beer on its own. Other breweries have decided that light haze is fine and that's how they roll. We may or may not move to that on some beers. Our flagship beer (805) is bright and will not deviate from that so our new clarification system is designed primarily to process that beer.
     
  10. bulletrain76

    bulletrain76 Maven (1,287) Nov 6, 2007 California

    I would clarify that handling DE improperly is dangerous because of the effect that is has on lung health over time if inhaled. New DE systems have very effective mechanisms to keep DE from going airborne and brewers should always wear proper respirators when handling DE.
     
    raynmoon likes this.
  11. bulletrain76

    bulletrain76 Maven (1,287) Nov 6, 2007 California

    I wish it were so simple. Filtration selectively catches some aromatic compounds more than others. It's not just a matter or more or less but of changing the composition. Tighter filtration does change hop aroma somewhat. Not necessarily of the worse and it really depends of variety and what aroma you are going for.

    I think the reality of filtration and the bad reputation it can have is that many breweries conduct filtration poorly and introduce large amounts of dissolved oxygen into the beer at this point in the process. If this is occurring, then of course the beer is probably going to be better if unfiltered. Many small breweries are better off skipping filtration because of this. It's just too risky. I wouldn't run a filter without dissolved oxygen meters to monitor the process. Lagering/fining is much safer and can be almost as effective for many beers as far as getting a reasonably clear product.
     
  12. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Agree about reputation owing to it being done poorly. We were lucky in that we have access to a DO meter (which can be crazy expensive). But, yes, the risk is certainly there. I would take slight issue with saying a brewery that can't afford a DO meter can resort to alternate methods that will be as good as filtration. If you have a centrifuge, good. But if you are using BioFine only or "just" cold crashing, I would argue you are not getting the desired resultant profile. For, say, a German Koelsch...a decent deal of that character owes itself directly to filtration -- and all its concomitant resulting flavors. Filtration has, in a sense, become "tradition" in beers like these.
     
  13. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Sam, would you characterize Sierra Nevada beers as being non-bright?

    Cheers!
     
  14. bulletrain76

    bulletrain76 Maven (1,287) Nov 6, 2007 California

    They are off-bright and the bottle conditioned beers have some yeast sediment in them. They still filter some beers that I would consider bright, like Summerfest or Nooner.
     
    JackHorzempa and herrburgess like this.
  15. bulletrain76

    bulletrain76 Maven (1,287) Nov 6, 2007 California

    I don't know about koelsch specifically but a local brewery here makes a great helles with biofine instead of filtration and you would never know it wasn't filtered. Put it in a bottle for a few months and I'm sure it would throw a haze but on tap at the brewery it's spot on.
     
    JackHorzempa and RBassSFHOPit2ME like this.
  16. RBassSFHOPit2ME

    RBassSFHOPit2ME Initiate (0) Mar 1, 2009 California
    Deactivated

    I don't give a flying F____ if the beer is hazy / non-hazy, filtered or non-filtered. If it's good, I'll continue to buy it & drink it. So long as it doesn't have that chalky - flinstone vitamin mouthfeel so many west coast unfiltered style seem to have. On that note, I've never known Firestone to make a bad beer, so....
     
    ebin6, Brolo75, neurobot01 and 5 others like this.
  17. TongoRad

    TongoRad Grand Pooh-Bah (3,848) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    OMG- that's a great descriptor, and all too accurate. These days I seem to think that that's exactly what they are going for, because it's so common. Such a fine line between stupid and clever...sorry...chalky and juicy :wink::sunglasses:.
     
    ebin6, Brolo75, VAcrossr and 2 others like this.
  18. cosmicdebris

    cosmicdebris Initiate (0) Feb 8, 2008 Connecticut

    I just hope I can get this as fresh as possible in my distribution area in CT. Many Firestone Walker beers are already 4 to 6 weeks old by the time we see them in stores.
     
    Brolo75 and smutty33 like this.
  19. raynmoon

    raynmoon Initiate (0) Aug 13, 2011 Colorado

    Better than 3 month old double jack AT the brewery last summer. And for $17. Lol.
     
    Brolo75 and cosmicdebris like this.
  20. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    That is just crazy.

    I am a fan of the beers that Firestone Walker produces but there is something seriously amiss with their lack of ability to manage the freshness of their beers. I can't tell you how many times I have lifted Firestone Walkers beers off the shelve at my local beer stores to just put them back down due to the age of the beers. It is like lifting weights at the gym!?!:slight_frown:

    Cheers!
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.