Averagely Perfect ESB - Poll #14 - Invert Sugar #2 Percentage

4% because simple sugars taste like crap at high percentages.

 

Given that we also have 2 crystals to add, 4%(or 5) seems right.

 

just a reminder to everyone, from bjcp:
8C. Extra Special/Strong Bitter (English Pale Ale)

Aroma: Hop aroma moderately-high to moderately-low, and can use any variety of hops although UK hops are most traditional. Medium to medium-high malt aroma, often with a low to moderately strong caramel component (although this character will be more subtle in paler versions). Medium-low to medium-high fruity esters. Generally no diacetyl, although very low levels are allowed. May have light, secondary notes of sulfur and/or alcohol in some examples (optional).

Appearance: Golden to deep copper. Good to brilliant clarity. Low to moderate white to off-white head. A low head is acceptable when carbonation is also low

Flavor: Medium-high to medium bitterness with supporting malt flavors evident. Normally has a moderately low to somewhat strong caramelly malt sweetness. Hop flavor moderate to moderately high (any variety, although earthy, resiny, and/or floral UK hops are most traditional). Hop bitterness and flavor should be noticeable, but should not totally dominate malt flavors. May have low levels of secondary malt flavors (e.g., nutty, biscuity) adding complexity. Moderately-low to high fruity esters. Optionally may have low amounts of alcohol, and up to a moderate minerally/sulfury flavor. Medium-dry to dry finish (particularly if sulfate water is used). Generally no diacetyl, although very low levels are allowed.

Mouthfeel: Medium-light to medium-full body. Low to moderate carbonation, although bottled commercial versions will be higher. Stronger versions may have a slight alcohol warmth but this character should not be too high.

Overall Impression: An average-strength to moderately-strong English ale. The balance may be fairly even between malt and hops to somewhat bitter. Drinkability is a critical component of the style; emphasis is still on the bittering hop addition as opposed to the aggressive middle and late hopping seen in American ales. A rather broad style that allows for considerable interpretation by the brewer.

Comments: More evident malt and hop flavors than in a special or best bitter. Stronger versions may overlap somewhat with old ales, although strong bitters will tend to be paler and more bitter. Fuller’s ESB is a unique beer with a very large, complex malt profile not found in other examples; most strong bitters are fruitier and hoppier. Judges should not judge all beers in this style as if they were Fuller’s ESB clones. Some modern English variants are brewed exclusively with pale malt and are known as golden or summer bitters. Most bottled or kegged versions of UK-produced bitters are higher-alcohol versions of their cask (draught) products produced specifically for export. The IBU levels are often not adjusted, so the versions available in the US often do not directly correspond to their style subcategories in Britain. English pale ales are generally considered a premium, export-strength pale, bitter beer that roughly approximates a strong bitter, although reformulated for bottling (including containing higher carbonation).

History: Strong bitters can be seen as a higher-gravity version of best bitters (although not necessarily “more premium” since best bitters are traditionally the brewer’s finest product). Since beer is sold by strength in the UK, these beers often have some alcohol flavor (perhaps to let the consumer know they are getting their due). In England today, “ESB” is a brand unique to Fullers; in America, the name has been co-opted to describe a malty, bitter, reddish, standard-strength (for the US) English-type ale. Hopping can be English or a combination of English and American.

Ingredients: Pale ale, amber, and/or crystal malts, may use a touch of black malt for color adjustment. May use sugar adjuncts, corn or wheat. English hops most typical, although American and European varieties are becoming more common (particularly in the paler examples). Characterful English yeast. “Burton” versions use medium to high sulfate water.

Vital Statistics: OG: 1.048 – 1.060
IBUs: 30 – 50 FG: 1.010 – 1.016
SRM: 6 – 18 ABV: 4.6 – 6.2%

 

Is the recipe deviating from the BJCP's take on ESB in a way that bothers you?

 

no, just think its going to be too sweet/malty/dark

 

Unless we use a ton of Dark Crystal this recipe is trending towards the lighter end of the srm scale. 20% invert (27L) sugar wont help that.

With an FG on the low end it wont have a lot of residual sweetness either.

Bottom line is we are.heading right at a classic ESB vs a Fullers ESB

 

I don't want much/a lot that way I can sub it out if need be. I voted 2%. Plus I have no idea where I will get it. I know my local health nut store has golden light syrup, but is that the same as what people want here? Also, not sure I want to risk trying to make it.

 

Golden Syrup is essentially invert #1. Add a bit of (good) molasses and you end up with the equivalent of invert #2.

Truly making invert syrup is essentially taking it to soft-ball candy(not candi) stage and carmelizing/holding it there for 90min. I'm not a novice in the kitchen but it doesn't sound like a project I want to take on. So I plan to do the mixing method.

If anyone is adventuresome you could order some of this invert sugar which is described as amber and see if it approximates invert #2 https://smile.amazon.com/Duck-Comma...017RW44D2/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

 

Depends on BU:GU really.

 

This is a reasonable concern. However, our decisions so far point to a lighter, dryer version of the style, as @crcostel indicated above. We have a highly attenuative yeast (despite the published info about it), and highly fermentable sugar. This suggests it will be dry to me. To make sure it doesn't get too sweet, we ought to keep the total crystal malt under 10% (6-7% feels right to me), and have it slanted towards more 55 than 89 (I'm thinking 2:1).

We also have the hop dial to adjust. If we stick to the guidelines,30-50 ibus, I think we will balance out sweetness or shift towards bitterness. I would like to see at least 30 (and preferably 35 or 40) calculated IBUS as a 60 minute addition. I do not feel that calculated ibus derived from late kettle and whirlpool hops especially balance sweetness in the same way.

 

You mean like in the likes of Duvel or Orval or many other Belgian beers for example?

I went for 8% fwiw, it should have a similar flavour contribution to a similar amount of crystal malt

 

Too sweet is a relative term. On my own, I probably would have made more towards the malty/copper/sweet version that @bkov33 doesn't want.

Given the decisions we have made so far, I think 5% C55 / 3.7% C80 / 5% Invert makes sense and keeps us pretty light in color(or colour!) with a touch of the caramel backbone. In the end I'd like a balanced beer. Not too sweet, not too dry. Something I could drink in a pub in Southern England.

As far as hops go (about a week out I think) - I'd think towards the 30-35ibu range is best and much more towards bitterness than aroma.

 

Went with 4%, would have picked 5% if it was listed. That leaves 6% for the C55 and C80, I would split those at 4% C55 and 2% C80.

Looking ahead, everyone is think lots of Citra (maybe a little Sorachi Ace) for the hops, right?

 

Chinook

 

Since we are making a british beer:

http://www.britishhops.org.uk/british-hop-varieties/

 

@wspscott I think has it spot on: 4% invert sugar, 4% C55, and 2% C80.

Hops:
EKG, with or without Fuggles.

 

I was leaning towards
EKG and/or
Challenger and/or
Target

I will save any further pleading for more crystal for the next poll.

 

Challenger to bitter, Bramling Cross flavour and target dry hop.. Not done that combo before

Or just stick with a bittering addition and maybe a dry hop and have a focus on malt/sugar/yeast flavours