Style-defining beers?

And yet you are fine the with hijacking that allows calling something an ale if it has hops in it?

 

Some people like to pick certain points in beer history and hang on to those definitions indefinitely, like pale ale is brewed predominantly with pale malt and porter/stout is brewed with porter malt, except that hasn't been true in over a century.

 

Education, obviously. Proper education. The fact-based type.

 

The German call it an Obergärigem Lager Bier, or a top fermented lagered beer. Very precise, those Germans. That, the top fermented part, is why some Koelsch brewers can use a small portion wheat in the Koelsch.

Edit - Zum Uerige Altbier defines Duesseldorf alt to me, jsut to stay on topic a llittle.

 

15th anny

 

What about:

Whitbread Gold Label - pale Barley Wine.
Mackeson - Milk Stout.
Manns - Brown Ale.
Amstel Bock - Dutch Autumn Bok.
Heineken Oud Bruin - Dutch Oud Bruin.
Amsdell XX - Albany Ale.
U Fleku - Tmavé Specialni Pivo.
Double Maxim - Double Brown Ale.
Younger's No. 3 - not that strong Scotch Ale.
Päffgen - Kölsch.
Harvey's Suusex Best Bitter - Southern Best Bitter.

 

Was it you, or someone else that I recall arguing with Garrett Oliver about this on the old board?

 

1997 Sam Adams Triple Bock - Syrup of Ipecac.

 

My post regarding Pale Ale as being brewed predominately from pale malt remains true and was to try to elucidate why IPA isn't a Pale Ale in some people's opinion.I never mentioned porter malt.
Worth mentioning that in UK statutes and EU law ales and porters are listed separately:
"The opposition was based on an earlier international figurative mark, registered on 30 June 1992 under the number 470542 and extended until 30 June 2012, which produces effects in Germany, Spain, France, Italy, Austria and the Benelux countries, for the following goods in Class 32: ‘Beer, ale and porter; mineral and aerated waters and other non-alcoholic drinks; syrups and other preparations for making beverages’.
As for American professional brewers; Shortly thereafter, AB applied to register the mark “BUDWEISER” for “beer, ale and porter” which BB opposed

 

He didnt refer to you.

And notice what that was in response to, it was me criticizing you for using ale in regards to beers that contain hops. Ales are unhopped, unless you accept the language changes of the 16th century. And if you do, time to accept the 20th and 21st century language changes too.

 

American Amber / Red: Ambergeedon
American Barleywine: Central Waters Y2K
American Double Stout: Founders Breakfast Stout
American IPA: Two Hearted (thou I like Chinooker'd better)
American Pale Ale: Zombie Dust
American Porter: Founders Porter
Belgian IPA: Bedlam
DIPA: Heady Topper
Fruit: WI Belgian Red
Hefeweizen: Dancing Man Wheat
Pumpkin: Schlafly
RIS: Parabola
Saison: Hennepin
Tripel: La Fin Du Monde

Then I'm breaking out the BA.
BA American Barleywine: Central Waters BBBW
BA American Double Stout: BCBS
BA English Barleywine: King Henry

Ask me tomorrow and a number of these will change hahaha

 

AAL: Budweiser
Hefenweizen: Paulaner (could go with many german options)
Czech Pils: Pilsner Urquell
Lambic: Cantillon
BPA: Orval
BSPA: Duvel
Vienna Lager: Boston Lager
Amber Ale: Fat Tire
Imperial Stout: Old Rasputin
English IPA: Harpoon
American IPA: Celebration or Stone
DIPA: Pliny the Elder
Robust Porter: Smuttynose
Baltic Porter: Gonzo
Pumpkin Ale: Smuttynose

 

Certainly words change their meaning , sometimed markedly.Ales gradually incorporated more hops over time.But to call all top fermenting beers ales is a bit further than that; it's a bit like insisting that all dogs are Rottweilers.My wife among many others calls all vacuum cleaners Hoovers on the same basis.

 

Paulaner Salvator-Doppelbock

 

Disagree. While you and the germans might not like it, Giving a nice simple name to all the top fermenting beers makes a lot of sense. And it being "ale" does to.

I think below best represents my view on this:

http://xkcd.com/867/

Im taking the ornithology viewpoint, which may also make me an asshole, but Im okay with that.

And on a related note:

1. Not a dinosaur
2. But this is a dinosaur

 

I think there are two things this discussion in general proves:

1. Humans like to categorize things
2. We suck at it

 

I think you have to look to England, Germany, or Belgium to really have style defining beers. Bring it to America and we'll just bastardize it and put American in front of the title.

 

Great beer, but I think continuous (or at least regular) availability is a prerequisite for a "style defining beer."

 

"Education, obviously. Proper education. The fact-based type."
While BJCP is merely educated recommendations and guidelines it is one of the best references to style accuracy. Care to elaborate or provide another source?