Blue Moon Founder Retires From MillerCoors

Discussion in 'Beer News' started by reowin, Jan 3, 2018.

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  1. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    Actually, I think it did neither. I think that it appeals to AAL drinkers that are a little more adventurous or people who don't like AAL, but aren't adventurous enough to take the full dive into actual craft beer. The proliferation of these "witbiers" is a thing unto itself, IMO. Not really AAL and not really craft. I do think, however, that their sales have taken more away from AAL sales than they have from craft sales. Drinking Blue Moon just doesn't produce a whole lot of cross-over craft drinkers, from what I've seen.
     
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  2. donspublic

    donspublic Grand Pooh-Bah (3,478) Aug 4, 2014 Texas
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Man sitting here reading this just realized that this was probably my gateway beer. When I was drinking wine exclusively years ago I would meet my friends at a dive bar and just couldn't handle Bud Lite any more (my old beer before wine), they always had Blue Moon & Shock Top on tap and I would drink the hell out of it. Never could drink much Shock Top, for some reason that yeast gave me hell
     
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  3. WesMantooth

    WesMantooth Grand Pooh-Bah (4,820) Jan 8, 2014 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Around 2005 I was drinking mostly imports (good and bad European lagers) and it was the main beer that led to me experimenting and learning more about the American “craft” beer scene.
     
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  4. Lucular

    Lucular Grand Pooh-Bah (3,943) Jun 20, 2014 Maryland
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Blue Moon was my first beer and as I was getting into beer I probably drank the equivalent of a few 12-packs of regular Blue Moon and variants over a 12-month time frame before moving exclusively to craft beer. That said, since I skipped the AAL/college drinking phase I guess that makes Blue Moon a gateway beer for me into craft but not a cross-over bridge.

    And for the record, I still enjoy a Blue Moon every now and then (when it's free of course). :wink:
     
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  5. JohnnyChicago

    JohnnyChicago Initiate (0) Sep 3, 2010 Illinois

    There’s a few things I like about blue moon. Its cheap, available, and a great introduction to craft!

    Then there are things I don’t...
    First, Keith. I’ve met the guy a couple of times and seen interviews from him. He just comes off as a douche. Sorry. Maybe he’s the coolest guy in the world if you get to know him. But when you hear him talk, he makes it sound like he invented craft beer, and I suspect deep down, there’s a part of him that believes that...

    Second, blue moon is not a very good beer. It doesn’t begin to stack up against the best in the style. It singlehandedly created that orange wedge ridiculousness that we are still dealing with today, and, if I remember correctly, it doesn’t even use a Belgian wheat strain. I’ve heard it’s just a neutral American ale yeast because they were afraid a proper stain would be too polarizing for their target customers. Nice.

    Third, it is the poster child of the obnoxious method certain breweries use to try to con customers into thinking that an independent brewery is making a product. Not exclusive to, but most notably done my BMC.

    Regardless, happy trails, Keith! Hope you find what you are looking for!
     
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  6. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    He's a douche and you're certainly not the first person to say that. Blue Moon is not Hoegaarden and he's not Pierre Celis.
     
  7. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Yup, I have heard/read the same thing as I posted above:

    "Yeast

    There is no mention of yeast strain selection but I have read where folks have stated that a neutral ale yeast strain is used to ferment Blue Moon. A neutral yeast strain will add little additional yeast derived flavor to Blue Moon.

    I have brewed many Witbiers using Wyeast 3944 which is reportedly the Hoegaarden/ Celis White yeast strain. That yeast strain is not neutral. Below is how Wyeast describes this yeast strain on their website:

    “This strain produces a complex flavor profile dominated by spicy phenolics with low to moderate ester production. It is a great strain choice when you want a delicate clove profile not to be overshadowed by esters. It will ferment fairly dry with a slightly tart finish that compliments the use of oats, malted and unmalted wheat.”

    Maybe next time you meet Keith you can confirm this?

    Cheers!
     
  8. eldoctorador

    eldoctorador Pooh-Bah (2,096) Dec 12, 2014 Chile
    Pooh-Bah

    are you sure about the orange wedge? I thought Widmer started that in the US, and also I've had Hefes served in Germany with that.
     
  9. JohnnyChicago

    JohnnyChicago Initiate (0) Sep 3, 2010 Illinois

    I recall an interview where he portrayed its invention as his ‘eureka’ moment and talked about personally going bar-to-bar with a bin of orange wedges, telling bartenders how to serve his beer (presumably because Coors couldn’t afford any nicer PoS items, haha).

    Who knows, though? Maybe this is just another thing Keith ‘invented’ like craft beer? :wink:
     
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  10. JohnnyChicago

    JohnnyChicago Initiate (0) Sep 3, 2010 Illinois

    Unlikely to meet the guy again, as we both (as of today) are no longer in the positions that brought us together previously. :grin:

    Maybe it was in ‘Brewing with Wheat’ that I read it? My copy is at home, otherwise I’d look it up.
     
  11. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    I found the below information on a howbrewtalk thread; information courtesy of a person that brewed at the Sandlot brewery in the 90’s:

    “I worked for Coors as the Brewmaster of SandLot Brewery from 1995-1997.

    I signed a non-disclosure/non-compete agreement that was good for one year after I left their employment. I asked about this situation when I was hired. I was told that nothing really stays secret in the industry for over a year.

    The Blue Moon Recipe is pretty much the same as many other wit beers as far as the percentage of grains. Keith has mentioned the Valencia oranges in interviews. He also talked about using Hallertauer Mittlefrueh hops and ale yeast.

    I am not giving away any trade secrets. The only thing really new is the ratio of corriander to orange peel. That is based on my work with the recipe post SandLot. I changed it a bit when I brewed it at the pubs I worked in after I left Coors.

    I did not brew for over a year after I parted with Coors. I worked for Five Star as Director of Brewery Services. I did honor my non-disclosure/non-compete agreement.

    What the recipe is now, I have no idea. What I posted above is how it was made 13 years ago.”

    And:

    “Blue Moon Belgian White was first sold commercially as Belly Slide Belgian White at the SandLot Brewery at Coors Field during the 1995 opening season.

    We did do a little fine tuning of the recipe, which was developed by Dr. Keith Villa of Coors R&D. Mostly to do with the ratio of Orange Peel to Corriander.

    The amounts of grains we used are roughly:
    50% 2 row pale malt. (The first couple of batches were made with Great Western)
    40% white wheat malt
    10% flaked oats.

    Hallertauer Mittelfrueh hops were added for a 90 minute boil. Bittering should be around 17.5 IBU. Only one addition.

    Blue Moon has always used pre-ground corriander and Valencia orange peel. Keith did not want the bitterness of Curacao oranges. He preferred the sweetness of the ground Valencia.

    Try 1.25 tsp of ground corriander added to the kettle 10 minutes before the end of boil. This is for a 5-6 gallon batch.

    Add 0.33tsp of ground Valencia orange peel 5 minutes before the end of boil.

    The Chico strain would work well in this recipe. You want a neutral taste from the yeast. Keith has said that the flavors that should come through are the orange peel and corriander, not the yeast.

    Be careful when lautering. I have made this recipe and some variations of it in three different pubs, with three different systems. I usually have trouble and end up sticking the mash. Run off very slowly.”

    https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/blue-moon-clone.65328/



    A few observations concerning the above:

    Wayne did not mention a specific yeast strain per se but his statement of “The Chico strain would work well in this recipe. You want a neutral taste from the yeast. Keith has said that the flavors that should come through are the orange peel and corriander, not the yeast.” confirms that a Belgian Wit strain is not used to ferment Blue Moon.

    Wayne stated: “40% white wheat malt”. Using wheat malt vs. raw wheat is not typical for the Belgian Wit style. Another change made to soften the flavor profile?

    Cheers!
     
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  12. Prince_Casual

    Prince_Casual Savant (1,212) Nov 3, 2012 District of Columbia
    Trader

    I guess agree to disagree. If you put Allagash White in front of people they prefer it over BM.

    Allagash isn't sold outside the NE and Mid-Atlantic, so it would be more correct to say "most people outside those states have never even heard of it, much less would choose it over BM."
     
  13. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    Are we talking blind tasting here or two bottles with labels on them?

    Allagash has a wider distribution footprint than you think. They also have an excellent reputation. You'd be surprised at how many people know who Allagash is.
     
  14. jmdrpi

    jmdrpi Grand High Pooh-Bah (8,245) Dec 11, 2008 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    When I used to occasionally read Peter King's MMQB column, he'd often mention Allagash White as a beer he liked. Sports Illustrated has (had?) millions of readers.
     
    #34 jmdrpi, Jan 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
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  15. meefmoff

    meefmoff Pooh-Bah (1,848) Jul 6, 2014 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    I'm not a fan of witbiers in general but if pushed I might say that Blue Moon was the one I've liked the most. Perhaps because it's simply less assertive in the characteristics that I don't care for than other "truer" examples of the style are.
     
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  16. meefmoff

    meefmoff Pooh-Bah (1,848) Jul 6, 2014 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    My experience is even more anecdotal but I have two friends who only drink AALs and crafty macros. They're actually fairly willing to try new crafty macros (they were very excited about Shock Top as an alternative to Blue Moon), but they almost never venture outside of that arena into things not made by the big national brands.

    I cant say for sure obviously but it feels to me like they are not terribly unusual.
     
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  17. TongoRad

    TongoRad Grand Pooh-Bah (3,848) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Yeah, what was said up thread about the neutral yeast makes sense in that regard. That must be what people are picking up on; or not, as the case may be.
     
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  18. meefmoff

    meefmoff Pooh-Bah (1,848) Jul 6, 2014 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    That is indeed the character that kept me off Belgians for quite a long time. Thankfully thanks to BA I've learned that the darker Belgian ales often keep that flavor in check so I've discovered the glory of things like St. Bernardus 12 even if I still don't care for most of the lighter stuff.
     
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  19. BigJim5021

    BigJim5021 Savant (1,227) Sep 2, 2007 Indiana

    AAL drinkers that “treat themselves” to Blue Moon (or Shock Top, Leinie’s, etc.) on the weekends are very common amongst our customers.
     
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  20. eldoctorador

    eldoctorador Pooh-Bah (2,096) Dec 12, 2014 Chile
    Pooh-Bah

    I think you may be right, I probably have my stories mixed up
     
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