The Plot to Destroy America's Beer

Discussion in 'Beer News' started by CellarGimp, Oct 26, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. bishopdc0

    bishopdc0 Savant (1,161) Jan 23, 2010 Maine

    I do wish to reply about profits. Independent businesses or employee owned business do not need to make profit. On a balance sheet profit is determined after all costs and revenue. Over simplifying it subtract the two and you get profit. For Budweiser this mean dividends, again oversimplified, for stakeholders for a independent brewery if they break even it is fine as all costs(wages, building, inventory) are covered this means business continues. Businesses don't fail when there is no profit they fail when costs are more then revenue.

    I by no means am anti corporation or for profits what I'm against is a rational consumers not uSing their buying power to promote businesses that they support especially with a commodity like beer. there are to many good beer companies with good beer to support a bad beer company. Just lite I don't support a company that makes bad beer even if they are a good company.
     
    cavedave likes this.
  2. Beerandraiderfan

    Beerandraiderfan Initiate (0) Apr 14, 2009 Nevada

    Wouldn't there still be thousands of other non Inbev beers to choose from nonetheless?
     
  3. 2beerdogs

    2beerdogs Grand Pooh-Bah (4,878) Jan 31, 2005 California
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Like the linked article about our fine President's brews- OBAMA'S BREWS. Interesting. Trade valuation? Whale, due to rarity?:wink:
     
  4. BrettHead

    BrettHead Initiate (0) Sep 18, 2010 Nebraska

    ISO: Goose Island signature 312 Imperial Pale Ale
     
  5. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,145) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    I agree with the sentiments in general here, turns out we agree mostly. That said, I take a longer view of things, and this perhaps explains how I don't take political stands about beer businesses, because every "large evil capitalist brewery that needs to be shunned" once was a small business that was cherished by consumers in the way we now cherish our fledgling local craft brewers.

    And so it may come to pass that these brewers we now idealize may decide, through changes of plans, or through adversity requiring the sale of stock (not making a profit means no reserve capital to weather all adversities), or through the demands of a thirsty public, to grow larger. They one day may be the evil capitalists. Will you then feel guilty that your purchases now helped fueled their rise?

    Business is neutral, unless it breaks laws. ABInBev, so far as I know, breaks no laws. It is also quite obvious that while they are engaged in the practices you deplore, the craft beer movement has succeeded remarkably. Perhaps it would succeed better if ABI didn't do what they do? Perhaps, in an anti-intuitive way that so often is the case, the craft beer movement is helped by their tactics. All we can say is that craft beer is growing greatly, because of, or in spite of, ABI. I don't pretend to know, and I am sure you don't think you do either. These are just facts.

    Fine beer is what I am interested in drinking. Those that can provide it for me most easily, most reliably, and most economically are those from whom I will purchase. Until now no product of theirs has fit the criteria, but I am happy to be able to buy BCBS easily, reliably, and somewhat economically. Should they stop producing the fine quality, I will stop drinking it, but it won't be about their morals.

    Okay it's really over this time:slight_smile:
     
    bishopdc0 likes this.
  6. BrettHead

    BrettHead Initiate (0) Sep 18, 2010 Nebraska

    You are not going to find revenues, expenses, or net income on any balance sheet ever...
     
  7. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Pooh-Bah (1,841) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah Society

    The 'data' I refer to is collected by taste buds. As for breweries that used to be great and are now mediocre at best (quality-wise, not marketing-wise) you can start with Magic Hat, Redhook, and Widmer. Others can no doubt chime in.
     
    cavedave likes this.
  8. bishopdc0

    bishopdc0 Savant (1,161) Jan 23, 2010 Maine

    Like I said oversimplified. I never intended this to be a lesson on liabilities and assets. I used it as a simple version of showing financial balance for a business....
    that said here is a copy of AB InBev's Balence sheet. Remember the numbers are in thousands(aka add 3 zeros to the end)

    http://finapps.forbes.com/finapps/jsp/finance/compinfo/FinancialIndustrial.jsp?tkr=BUD
     
    BrettHead likes this.
  9. Beerandraiderfan

    Beerandraiderfan Initiate (0) Apr 14, 2009 Nevada

    I'll take you up on the invite. 2 out of 3 ain't bad (Magic Hat/Red Hook) . . . but I think Widmer has actually gotten better the last few years (Drifter, Nelson, Rotator IPAs, Galaxy BW)
     
  10. bishopdc0

    bishopdc0 Savant (1,161) Jan 23, 2010 Maine


    Well,
    Im glad to finally have a discussion on BA that wasn't a stupid back and forth and it actually was more then what the best IPA or something. I can certainly respect your opinions as to a certain degree they are my own, however I have yet to find myself in the position of loving a product and not liking the producer. Oddly enough I've only had BCBS once like 4 years ago when I live in the Mid-west. A friend was introducing me to craft beer at the time. So my mind may change but I think given my steadily increasing access to new breweries I can see not having trouble finding something that will meet my somewhat pie in the sky criteria.

    Cheers
     
    cavedave likes this.
  11. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Pooh-Bah (1,841) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah Society

    We don't get the stuff you mention in the east (or even in CO as far as I know). The Widmer brews available here might as well be brewed in China for all I know. I hear melamine really enhances head retention.

    Maybe a little harsh, but I like my melamine reference so I'm leaving it up:slight_smile: - no offense. I'll look at Widmer reviews since I can't drink them right now and might have to retract a little.

    edit: I do remember the Widmer lagers I drank 20 years ago; nothing from them that I can get my hands on now comes close.
     
  12. TheRealDBCooper

    TheRealDBCooper Initiate (0) Mar 17, 2010 Svalbard & Jan Mayen Islands

    From a purely business perspective, I would not be at all surprised to see Inbev in trouble in 5 years. Changing recipes and not buying hops this year because they have too many left over from last year (WTF?) well help the bottom line in the short term, but push customers away. Won't be too long before they start discounting.
     
  13. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    So, your tastes haven't changed in 20 years and while a very small percentage out of 300-1000 breweries, depending on when one starts counting, got bigger and quality suffered, you can't think of any breweries of that age that got bigger and quality remained the same or improved?
     
  14. chcfan

    chcfan Initiate (0) Oct 29, 2008 California

    Are you sure that it isn't that you've tried many interesting beers in recent years making the beers from those breweries not seem special anymore? Those are sort of "training wheels" craft brewers as it is.
     
    drtth and Beerandraiderfan like this.
  15. rlcoffey

    rlcoffey Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2004 Kentucky

    Magic Hat was great once?

    Ive had their beer in all their ownership forms, and Ive never been anything but whelmed.
     
    drtth and Beerandraiderfan like this.
  16. kexp

    kexp Initiate (0) May 10, 2007 North Carolina

    Drink your local brewery's fresh, quality beer, and you'll be just fine.
     
    cavedave likes this.
  17. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Pooh-Bah (1,841) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Certainly my palate has changed, but not enough to account for some differences I'm seeing. BMC beers have actually been useful for calibration in that regard because they haven't changed much (until now, maybe). I will say that my hop aroma threshold is a lot higher than it was in the old days. Maybe if I stopped drinking IPA's for a year or 2 it would come back down (not gonna happen with Alchemist, Lawsons and Hill Farmstead in the neighborhood).

    There are certainly plenty of good breweries who improved, and are still improving, as they got big. I already mentioned Sierra Nevada. Also New Belgium, Smuttynose, Dogfish, Stone, Ommegang, etc. Lots of smaller local brewers too. In VT, Rock Art has quadrupled in size and improved its beers greatly in the last few years. Possibly more breweries improve as they grow than decline; I was just giving a couple of examples in reply to cavedave.
     
  18. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Just as an FYI, both your palate and your calibration standard have changed over the last 20 years. BMC beers now generally have close to half the IBUs they had "back in the day."

    http://www.realbeer.com/blog/?p=142

    And thanks for the listing of breweries that improved as they got big. It reinforces my belief that getting bigger doesn't necessarily mean loss of quality. For me it’s the people who make the beer great, not the size of the brewery. So I'd have suggested to cavedave that the thing he's concerned he might see has little to do with a small brewery getting bigger and is an inevitable side effect of the fact that things change, some for the worse, some for the better.
     
    cavedave likes this.
  19. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,145) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    It would be my pleasure to discover that that, for the types of beer we all love, things did continue to get better, and that there is little inevitability to producer size growth reducing product quality.
     
  20. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Well in one sense breweries are like people. Some get better, some get worse, some don't change. The question is are there more getting better than there are getting worse? And you've already answered that question more than once when you point out, as you have several times, that the world of beer now is sooooo much better than it was when we were both younger and more foolish. :slight_smile:
     
    BrettHead and cavedave like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.