BrewDog accused of stealing marketing ideas

Discussion in 'Beer News' started by wesbray, May 12, 2019.

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  1. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    That's good since the actual probability of the accounting software being at fault is actually quite small. The anecdote I was describing in my earlier post was the only time that ever happened in my case.
     
    #141 drtth, May 16, 2019
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
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  2. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,757) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Super Mod Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    @drtth @JackHorzempa @southdenverhoo

    It's not always an accounting glitch - sometimes the machinery of installed bureaucracy provides its own glitch, so to speak.

    We have all dealt with the middle manager who simply "couldn't" effect a relatively simple change, for whatever reason (usually their own understanding of company policy). Sometimes, this legitimately is due to software limitations (typically poor foresight on the part of the company).

    Two quick examples:

    1) My bank recently locked out my checking account (due to an error on their part), placing it in a debit-only status, without notifying me. I discovered this issue after I had three checks (in a three day period) "bounce" and my water turned off - despite having more than sufficient funds on hand. The bank's own policies suggest this is not only OK, but that there is no recourse. I am, basically, just "fooked" (perhaps not official company lingo), in terms of late fees, rejection fees, and potential credit impact. No software glitch necessary; no malice necessary; simply asinine bureaucracy taking to an absurd level.

    2) I once had to take an assignment where the per diem did not actually cover my hotel costs, based on a pre-existing contract that ensured my employer would compensate the hotel at a rate that I was not, as an employee, guaranteed up front. Of course, I would be reimbursed on the back end, but I had to front around $1300 during the course of my stay.

    Naturally, it was not that simple, and it took months to get my back pay - months of fighting against a machine not used to, well, thinking. Someone in a tighter financial situation could have been royally screwed, waiting - and hoping, perhaps praying - for compensation for money they should never have been required to pay up front (essentially an interest-free loan to the employer).

    Again, no software glitch necessary; no human malice. Just ordinary humans inflexibly following instructions. Surely, that's never gone poorly before.

    TL/DR/TOO LATE (:stuck_out_tongue:): It does not require some esoteric situation or statistical anomaly to explain why something as simple as not having your own freaking money might occur. Quite often, the answer is rather banal, perhaps bordering on Kafkaesque, which requires no ill intent. Ms. Frankart not being compensated for travel and lodging in a timely manner is in no way anomalous, as sad as it is to say.
     
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  3. schteve

    schteve Pundit (770) Sep 10, 2003 New Jersey

    It's called spec work and it's rampant in the industry. Those types of contests are bullshit and breed lazy design and stolen ideas. Same with all those $99 logo sites and others like fiverr.

    But on the surface, this looks more egregious. It's not just rook rubes to get free work, often ripped right from other designers' portfolios. It's the pretense of a hiring gig with a rejection, and then using said rejected work.

    Not taking sides in this argument since there still seems like a lot of facts missing, just jumping in to say "spec work = the devil".
     
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  4. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    Sounds like two experiences where you have a genuine beef. I personally would support you criticizing those entities which performed poorly here.

    Cheers!
     
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  5. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,757) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Super Mod Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Haha, I definitely have been (one was quite recent). A recurring theme, however, was how powerless individuals in the corporate food chain, if you will, were to provide any assistance. Also, sadly, many entities (corporate or otherwise) are clearly beyond consequence.

    In the first case, every individual I talked to, over two weeks, insisted it was impossible to find out what transactions were affected by their own action. Despite it not remotely being my area of expertise, it was all I could do to not scream at them that, quite simply, this is not how digital handshakes work - it is in fact, quite possible to know this information!

    Finally, I found one individual with the requisite knowledge (vice procedural script, with which we are all familiar when calling tech support - "OK, I am going to need to you power off your router....."), and she was able to provide me with the data I needed within 2 minutes - the information I knew was available all along.

    Both are classic examples of not attributing malice to acts of stupidity. In neither case did individuals have anything to gain by deceit or malice. They simply found themselves quickly out of their depth, and the easiest action in that case is ... inaction. Doing nothing is less likely to get you in trouble than doing something wrong, and when you don't know what "right" looks like, all actions are weighted heavily toward being wrong.
     
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  6. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Makes my one experience seem both tame and rare...
     
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  7. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    This “powerlessness” sounds all too familiar to me...

    Even the Army had fewer problems with that than what I’ve seen since. :slight_smile:
     
    #147 drtth, May 16, 2019
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
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  8. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,757) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Super Mod Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    I could easily have gone on for pages (it's been a .... frustrating .... few weeks), but I think even scant details still suffice to emphasize the point that people need not go searching for ill intent simply because of poor results. Often - and regardless of magnitude - people getting "screwed over" has little to do with sociopathy, and far more to do with incompetence, inefficiency, apathy, etc.

    Ms. Frankart not getting reimbursed for travel after seven months? Sad to say, I'm not only not shocked, I'm a little surprised she wasn't asked by the accountants to brew up a batch of craft beer. :wink:
     
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  9. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,145) Mar 12, 2009 New York
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    Don't have to be a lawyer to know the "honest mistake" excuse is always in play unless there is direct, overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Even in a case like this, where there is no reason to think it was an honest mistake, and there is reason to suspect the opposite.
     
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  10. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Well, since nobody was suggesting that an honest mistake was made I think we can agree that that is not on the table.
     
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  11. William_Navidson

    William_Navidson Maven (1,451) May 1, 2015 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    Don't people usually correct their honest mistakes and/or apologize? Doesn't the text accompanying the picture directly undermine the possibility that this is an honest mistake?

    I'm perfectly willing to admit that there's a .01% chance that this is somehow a misunderstanding -- I simply have no clue why people are so generously affording BD the benefit of the doubt based on the surrounding context and past events. Maybe you can give voice to this extreme generosity (which obviously comes at the expense of the aggrieved interviewee)?
     
  12. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,145) Mar 12, 2009 New York
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    The surrounding context is certainly hard to get by except to claim it was an honest mistake.
     
  13. William_Navidson

    William_Navidson Maven (1,451) May 1, 2015 Pennsylvania
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    Genuinely curious and not meaning to sound rude: but it looks like you're on the side of "too close to call" even given the surrounding context, the lack of a correction or apology, etc... maybe you can explain why that is? Once again, I'm completely open to the fact that honest mistakes happen... but we don't have much (if any) evidence pointing us to that direction, and we have plenty pointing us towards the "malice" direction. Or am I mis-characterizing your perspective?
     
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  14. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,145) Mar 12, 2009 New York
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    Not at all, I find it the least likely explanation, given the surrounding context. I only meant to say it seems to be the only excuse that could make it seem to be innocent.
     
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  15. William_Navidson

    William_Navidson Maven (1,451) May 1, 2015 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    Ah, that makes perfect sense -- thanks for clarifying. Like I said before, I agree that it is a potential explanation even if the chances of it are infinitesimal. I'm still not quite sure I see the reasoning behind @drtth 's claim that it is "more likely" than not that this scenario is better explained by "stupidity" or an honest mistake than it is explained by malice.

    *And just as an aside, to clarify: when I say "malice" I don't mean that "James of BrewDog, the individual" is somehow "evil" or anything even close to that. That was my mistake earlier by simply labeling him as "James"... I mean the BrewDog organization as a whole, which I think is fairly different. I don't know "James."
     
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  16. rgordon

    rgordon Pooh-Bah (2,677) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    I always felt sorry for the kid whose dog really did eat the homework.
     
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  17. officerbill

    officerbill Pooh-Bah (2,228) Feb 9, 2019 New York
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    The policies and software my municipality used couldn't handle documenting and paying part of an invoice. If there was any disputed charge the whole thing, including legitimate charges, got kicked back (or ignored for as long as possible).
     
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  18. CB_Michigan

    CB_Michigan Maven (1,478) Sep 4, 2014 Illinois
    Trader

    I'm clearly late to the party and I DO have a lot of issues (on both sides) with how this whole episode seems to have unfolded, but I did want to address this particular part of the candidate assessment. Frankly, I think this is completely appropriate for this type of work, and could be a very informative question if assessed properly. Here are some of the things I'd be looking for in a candidate:
    - Are they familiar enough with the brand portfolio to propose a beer that compliments, rather than duplicates or cannibalizes an existing beer?
    - Can they position this new beer in a way that aligns with our current marketing?
    - Does their launch/go-to-market strategy make sense in terms of feasibility and our overall posture/position?
    To me, this question is all about putting together a new product launch, so you wouldn't ask a candidate to work on an existing product (they've already been launched), nor would you reveal anything that is actually "in the works." I guess you could give them a dummy beer name, but requiring them to come up with one is more informative.

    TL;DR: Everything else that happened in the "interview" process reads like a two-sided train wreck, but I'm OK with this particular question.
     
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  19. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

  20. BayAreaJoe

    BayAreaJoe Pooh-Bah (1,650) Nov 23, 2017 California
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Small article on the resolution:

    https://www.prweek.com/article/1584823/manifest-brewdog-amicably-resolve-punk-af-ip-dispute

    Anyway I read in a different article how Manifest really bit their Punk AF design off another marketing group that put out a strikingly similar looking AF campaign for another company six months earlier. Manifest's guy tried to defend himself on twitter but it seemed far-fetched. Funny that they got called out after calling out BrewDog.
     
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