BrewDog accused of stealing marketing ideas

Discussion in 'Beer News' started by wesbray, May 12, 2019.

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  1. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,017) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
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    The fact that they're keeping this behind a curtain of "confidentiality" really says it all.

     
    #161 Snowcrash000, May 16, 2019
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
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  2. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
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    Funny indeed, but that also demonstrates at least one of the inherent difficulties in assigning ownership of IP. I was once in a meeting discussing how to resolve a particular problem. One of us made a suggestion which a second person thought was a good idea that would solve the problem. However, the other two guys simply didn't connect or see the point. So the meeting ended with things unresolved.

    At the next planning meeting it turned out that the night after the first meeting one of the two who hadn't connected on the idea had a "flash of insight" in the middle of the night and suddently knew how to solve the problem. Next morning he called the other person who had not clicked on the idea. Guess who wound up taking credit for coming up with the idea that solved the problem.... :sunglasses:

    BTW do you remember where you read that second article about Manifest?
     
    #162 drtth, May 16, 2019
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
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  3. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
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    Do you have a sense of what "paid off" is supposed to mean? (I'm pretty sure I know why the second guy thinks the screenshot was inappropriate.)
     
  4. rozzom

    rozzom Pooh-Bah (2,534) Jan 22, 2011 New York
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    This thread has made my head explode in a multi-dimensional way
     
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  5. BayAreaJoe

    BayAreaJoe Pooh-Bah (1,650) Nov 23, 2017 California
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    I can't find the exact article again, it was one of those creepy Google phone alerts to tell you to read stuff based on what you've been doing already. But it was for a campaign for Infinite Session.

    Here's some twitter stuff about it:

    If you look in there somewhere on Twitter someone from Manifest replies back and attempts to defend their concept as original, but c'mon.




     
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  6. BayAreaJoe

    BayAreaJoe Pooh-Bah (1,650) Nov 23, 2017 California
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    If this person is implying that Manifest was paid off...I doubt it. It appears that BrewDog knows or is familiar with the actual agency that came up with the original concept that Manifest bit, so...
     
  7. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,058) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    Unidimensional head explosions resemble an expanding line and don't have the same panache.
     
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  8. rightcoast7

    rightcoast7 Maven (1,294) Apr 2, 2011 Maine
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    The work Manifest is accused of ripping off doesn’t seem all that similar tbh. I mean, sure, they used the initials AF to mean alcohol free, but isn’t that a fairly standard usage anyway? The old campaign wasn’t using AF as a stand-in for “as fuck”, nor did they tie it to the word punk, which seems to me to be at the core of the Mainfest campaign and much more clever than the old campaign. At some level most creative professions depend on borrowing ideas from others, but I see the Manifest campaign as far different and more creative than the first one.
     
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  9. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,017) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
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    Well, this has been a pretty public case that has done a lot of damage to BrewDog's reputation so far. So if they really came to a mutually beneficial agreement with Manifest that made good on what they are being accused of, then it would only be in their very own best interest to make that public as well, wouldn't it. Keeping it all hush hush like this doesn't exactly paint them in the best light either.

    I would also like to point out that even IF Manifest got the Punk AF idea from another campaign, which is in no way clear at this point, that STILL didn't make it okay for BrewDog to simpy steal that name from the concept they submitted to them. Two wrongs don't make a right.
     
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  10. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Let me see if I follow your thinking here. A thief (Manifest) accuses BD of stealing something from them which they themselves stole from someone else and then deliberately passed off as being their own. (The evidence that Manifiest "stole" the idea from someone else is every bit as clear and credible as the evidence that BD "stole" the idea from Manifest.)

    Now you are saying we should believe the thief who says BD stole something from them which they did not even own in the first place?

    Furthermore we are supposed to believe that thief when they effectively claim that the only way BrewDog, who already have a "Punk IPA," could come up with the "Punk AF" is by theft of their already stolen idea?
     
    #170 drtth, May 17, 2019
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
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  11. rgordon

    rgordon Pooh-Bah (2,677) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina
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    @rozzom, my head just 'sploded in multi-dimension technicolor.
     
  12. CB_Michigan

    CB_Michigan Maven (1,478) Sep 4, 2014 Illinois
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    If you're referring to the Infinite Session beer, the AF certainly seems to be used as a stand-in for "as f**k." Their first 3 tweets as an operating company (Feb 2018) are:




    Along with this shot from Instagram:


    Also the "Not Boring AF" slogan:


    It seems a core part of their branding from the start, not to mention the font similarities between what they're actually doing and what manifest proposed. Sure, they didn't actually use the word "punk" because doing so likely would have been trademark infringement, but the double-entendre meaning at the heart of the concept is the same.

    Does this mean Manifest stole from them? Possibly, IS has gotten a fair amount of press in the UK and seems widely distributed. Does it undercut Manifest's claim that they were the only ones that could have possibly developed the concept for BD? I'd say so. It's not some kind of brilliantly unique idea and seemed like an odd choice to try mounting some kind of crusade on it.
     
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  13. CB_Michigan

    CB_Michigan Maven (1,478) Sep 4, 2014 Illinois
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    Well, making it public might not be so good for Manifest. They made a pretty bold claim with scant evidence other than "BD said they were going in a different direction." Maybe someone in marketing can shed more light on this, but to me that seems ambiguous as to whether it means a different concept or different execution or different slogans or what. As shown by the Infinite Sessions tweets, this idea of AF having a double meaning is not all that original, especially when paired with the word "punk."
     
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  14. BayAreaJoe

    BayAreaJoe Pooh-Bah (1,650) Nov 23, 2017 California
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    ??? It's the same font prominently displayed in the center in the same way. I'd say the variance between BrewDog's campaign & the one Manifest "came up with" is far greater than Manifest vs. the actual original idea.
     
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  15. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,017) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
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    I just think it's fascinating that you have constantly given BrewDog every benefit of the doubt all along the way despite everything that has been brought forward against them and now that one thing comes up against Manifest, they are thieves, no ifs, ands or buts about it.
     
  16. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Yep, on the topic of this thread, the accusation by Manifest of BD being guilty of IP theft, I do indeed tend to give BD the benefit of the doubt. No question about it, so guilty as charged. In my view of the world, someone is generally not guilty until proven otherwise, regardless of their prior "conviction" record, especially when most or all of that record is demonstrably biased and/or distorted, demonstrably wrong, demonstrably irrelevant or demonstrably not understanding how the world works. In addition the burden of proof is on the accuser, especially when dealing with Twitter and other avenues of Social Media where, as I said earlier in this thread, misinformation and outrage spread further and faster than accurate information and corrections.
     
    #176 drtth, May 17, 2019
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
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  17. CB_Michigan

    CB_Michigan Maven (1,478) Sep 4, 2014 Illinois
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    What, exactly, have they done other than failing to reimburse a job applicant's plane fare and posting (in quite poor taste) an "invoice" the applicant sent them 18 months ago? If there are any credible accusations against them, I'm all ears. I'm predisposed to disliking their shtick as much as anyone, but I'm not seeing a whole lot here.
     
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  18. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,017) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
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    https://www.boredpanda.com/brewing-...cate&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=organic
     
  19. BayAreaJoe

    BayAreaJoe Pooh-Bah (1,650) Nov 23, 2017 California
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  20. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,017) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
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    There were 3 other agencies accusing BrewDog of shady business practices, plus the whole thing about them threatening to sue people using "Punk" or "Lone Wolf" in their business names, which is particularly ridiculous over the term "Punk", fucking hypocrites.
     
    #180 Snowcrash000, May 18, 2019
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
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