Has American Craft Beer exceeded European Beer.

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by BreakingBad, Nov 19, 2012.

?

Has American Craft beer surpassed European beer?

  1. Yes

    75.5%
  2. No

    24.5%
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  1. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society


    Good observation about the spelling. Yes, the name of the beer is Vunderbar Pilsner. I suppose they did that for us non-German speaking Americans.

    Cheers!

    P.S. The proper German spelling would be Wunderbar, right?
     
  2. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    50 million fans of peanut butter banana ale can't be wrong! :wink:
     
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  3. Ruds

    Ruds Initiate (0) Sep 15, 2008 England

    Can we re-run this poll and only open it to people who have travelled to say at least 5/10 states in the US AND at least 3 or more countries in Europe.

    I think the as entirely expected 'Aren't we the biggest and bestest in the US - hooooorah ! ' answers would dwindle a little !

    And this comes from someone who rates the US as their favourite brewing country btw!
     
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  4. brewbetter

    brewbetter Initiate (0) Jun 2, 2012 Nauru

    The only reasons to even have this discussion are Cantillon and Hanssens imo.
    It's really not that easy to get Cantillon in Europe though. It is if you happen to live next to one of the stores that get distribution, but those are few and far between.
    I fall in this group. I stand by the position that USA is far-and-away the best country for beer.
     
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  5. Ruds

    Ruds Initiate (0) Sep 15, 2008 England

    As stated the US is my favourite brewing country also, however pretty much all the decent stuff being brewed in the UK never makes it to the US - you just get fobbed off with Sam Shits and the like.

    My point being, a lot of people who post on here have little concept of what goes on outside the US and what is actually being brewed elsewhere. You have to travel, and fairly regularly at that ( I'm not talking a one off trip or every 3/4 years) to truly keep on top with developments in Europe and the US.
     
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  6. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,651) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Indeed.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wunderwaffe
     
  7. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    You are indeed a funny guy!:slight_smile:

    I thought it would be interesting to do a quick review of traditional (read: German) style beers comparing German brewery awards vs. US brewery awards. The results are:

    Germany: 18
    US: 22

    If you do a more generalized comparison of Europe and North America (Canada won 3 medals):

    Europe: 24

    North America 25

    The US did very good in winning medals for non-peanut butter banana ales!

    Cheers!

    P.S. The above were for Categories 31, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, and 54.
     
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  8. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    The Elvis connection there was just too difficult to resist. Cheers!
     
  9. nrs207

    nrs207 Initiate (0) Sep 8, 2011 Pennsylvania

    This says a lot. I'd say USA too, but IPAs are my favorite style. The only imports I ever find myself wanting are lambics/gueuzes. Other than this style, I think America has too many amazing breweries. Not saying overall quality of breweries across the nation, but outside of sours, breweries like Hill Farmstead, Russian River, FFF, Founders, CCB, Firestone Walker, Bell's, The Bruery, The Alchemist (even though only one beer), and widely distributed Stone and Sierra Nevada. I could do a pick em with 3 of any of those and live happily ever after. RR ain't too shabby with sours compared to the Belgian counterparts. I'm definitely biased since I hardly drink lagers so I have little appreciation for many of the German styles.
     
  10. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society


    An interesting interview with Cantillon brewer Jean Van Roy at: http://www.citypaper.net/blogs/mealticket/the_meal_ticket_interview_cantillon_brewer_jean_van_roy.html

    “MT: Cantillon has a huge following in Philadelphia. People here love your beers.

    JVR It is incredible ... I cannot express the feeling here. There is nothing like it, even in Brussels.”

    Another interesting Jean Van Roy story:

    “Jean Van Roy, whose family runs Brasserie Cantillon in Brussels, made his first visit to the United States for Beer Week. As he was checking into his Center City hotel, the desk clerk noticed the brewery logo on Van Roy's shirt and launched into unsolicited praise for the tiny brewery's unusual, funky gueuze.

    A couple of hours at Monk's Café, where his beer was served alongside lambics from 3 Fonteinen and Boon breweries, Cantillon related the story with astonishment. "All of these years, no one in Brussels ever recognized me," he said. "I come to Philadelphia, and they know me. I love this town."

    Above from: http://www.philly.com/philly/restaurants/beer/20100611_Joe_Sixpack__As_Philly_Beer_Week_continues__here_are_some_fave_brews.html

    Cheers!
     
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  11. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,145) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    For my thinking I only thought of styles for which comparison would be fair. For instance regarding UK beers, English Barley Wines, as they certainly travel well, and Porters and Stouts for the same reason. I gave the crown to UK handily for milds, bitters, English Pales, ESB, and Scotch Ale. As far as the bigger beers go, we have equal or better, and we have 80 other styles in multiple variations UK, and most of the rest of Europe, don't have.

    I don't need to travel to know that you don't have them better, one needs only read to see you don't have them at all. I was at a brewfest recently and counted over 30 styles among 100 beers. And that is a small number for fests, TAP NY had about 50 styles represented. And that is hardly most of the styles we brew here. In the last 2 months I have had a coffee pale ale, a coffee Black IPA, and a Peach Berliner Weisse ,all fantastic, and all brewed within forty miles of where I live I bet there are more and better Berliner Weisses brewed in the northeast corner of this country than in Germany and the rest of Europe combined. How many styles represented in any one country of Europe? Or in all of Europe for that matter?

    We are too lacking in tradition here to know better than to try our hands at all these styles. We are too lacking in tradition here to know better than to think we can do things better than Europeans. We are too lacking in tradition to know better than to combine styles and use ingredients that none but the most foolish non-European would think to use. We are too lacking in tradiition to know better than to aggressively breed as many new hop varieties as possible.

    I read things are changing over there, especially in UK and Italy. It is you following us now, and that is good.
     
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  12. Ruds

    Ruds Initiate (0) Sep 15, 2008 England

    That's such a quaint old American statement - I love it :slight_smile:

    Things have changed - you just need to be here to experience it - NO sorry - you don't need to travel - typical Beer Advocate US blinkers!!!

    Like I said we just send you the boring stuff you expect to come from the UK!

    I can see you are obsessed with 'style counting' and as ALWAYS the US win but really ... Scotch Ales DO NOT EXIST apart from in the mind of some beer judging men in the US!
     
  13. rrryanc

    rrryanc Pundit (884) May 19, 2006 California

    But what hides the flaws is flavor. It's extremely hard to hide flaws in water too....

    Also, if the flaws are hidden, then why's it matter as long as it tastes good. I don't really care how good the brewers are at their jobs, I care what the end product tastes like.


    I traveled a lot this last year to Europe (7+ trips) (and have been around a lot of the outside of the US in my years of living her), and the main difference for me was that a lot of Europe has no interest in good beer at all.

    Pretty much anywhere in the US you're able to grab at least a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale or a Sam Adams Lager. And the idea of a small brewpub is extremely common.

    Now head to Italy, Spain, France or Portugal (4 of the countries I visited this last year). I found some decent beers in Italy, but by and large if you're not drinking wine there you're doing it wrong. They all have local, ubiquitous, and boring beers available.

    I don't love German beer styles, I think they're generally pretty boring beers, which definitely biases my opinion toward that brewing culture. I do appreciate that finding a locally brewed beer is way easier and much more a part of the culture there. Same goes for London. Actually found it hard to find reasonable beers at most pubs. And they have a tendency to have a ton of similar tasting beers - with the main distinction being able to get something slightly more bitter, or cask style.

    I only managed to spend time in Brussels in Belgium, but I do think they make some great beers (duh), and I also think that culturally they're far past a lot of the US when it comes to beer choices and selections at any random establishment - as well as the high end choices for the connoisseurs.

    But generally, I think you're better off in any random pub/bar in the US than most of Europe when it comes to craft beer. Given how much I'm traveling to Europe these days, I wish that wasn't the case (my Brussels trip was one of the better ones).
     
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  14. Ruds

    Ruds Initiate (0) Sep 15, 2008 England

    France, Spain and Portugal (especially) are pretty low on the good beer stakes. Spain is starting to emerge a little, France has a small amount. You have hit on some of the most limited countries there. Parts of Italy, Roma especially are great now.

    In respect to your comment about pretty much anywhere in the US being able to grab SNP or a Sam Adams, ditto UK, Germany or Belgium.

    You'll get something of equal rarity/quality in most bars. I find a lot of the cask bitters in the UK on the dull side in average pubs not renowned for good beers, however I feel the same about SNP and Sam Adams - they are a default choice if there is nothing better, but don't really do anything for me.

    Which pubs did you hit in London?
     
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  15. dennis3951

    dennis3951 Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2008 New Jersey

    What about the twins oh thats 2 good reasons!
     
  16. epk

    epk Pundit (813) Jun 10, 2008 New Jersey

    What hides flaws? Well, alcohol content was already mentioned. Dark roasted malts can hide off flavors. Hops and bitterness are another thing. And I mentioned esters because in top-fermenting yeasts (ale yeasts) which are fermented warmer, esters are more prolific and accepted to a degree for beers that would fall under that umbrella.

    And you misunderstand. That's the point - the flaws are hidden, it probably taste fine and you like it. The same flaw in a cleaner beer may be apparent however, and you may not like it.
     
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  17. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    The only thing preventing Germany from "having" the latest/greatest barrel-aged Imperial whatever is marketing speak. All you'd need to do, for example, is rename Schlenkerla Urbock or Eiche "Beechwood/oak smoked, Bock/Imperial Bock aged in hand-hewn Franconian oak barrels" and then mention its limited availability and gravity-fed serving method...oh, and serve it by the 4 oz. sample to only those beer "advocates" devoted enough to camp out to get some, and voila! You just created 2 new "exciting styles." This process then need only be replicated for the 1000s of individualistic Keller-, Zoigl-, Zwickel-, Land-, and Ungespundete beers, not to mention the Braunbier, Schwarzbier, Helles, Dunkles, Dampfbier, etc., etc., each with their own idiosyncrasies, found within a 100 mile radius of Bamberg. I'm pretty sure the brewers there will leave that to the U.S. "experts" on such marketing speak, however, since in general they are themselves too busy brewing and enjoying these beers in centuries old breweries, shady beer gardens, and historic taverns to worry much about such adolescent posturing.
     
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  18. rrryanc

    rrryanc Pundit (884) May 19, 2006 California

    Ya, but people always talk about European beer, and then focus on the beer scenes in two of the smallest countries there. I certainly didn't go to Italy expecting great beer (though I did find some very good beers, which I was surprised by), but Italy, Spain, and France certainly comprised a good deal of both the people and space in Europe.

    Concentrating on UK, Germany and Belgium is like telling someone to hit up New England, CA and the Pacific Northwest. I guarantee you'll find more variety at the random bars there then I did in London, even in the touristy place.

    I didn't hit up anywhere notable in London, was there for a conference with non-beer people. I just remember feeling like most all of the beers I drank tasted very similar. Not bad, but largely unremarkable.
     
  19. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    You gotta give a hand to the Germans with their biergartens. I have seen the pictures, they look sweet!:slight_smile:

    http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/best-beer-gardens.48898/#post-632494

    I can’t wait until I win the lottery so I can sit under those spreading Chestnut Trees!

    I did make it to Wurstfest in New Branufels, TX. Sorta a biergarten but you can wear a Cowboy hat there. I was donned in a traditional alpine hat myself.

    Prost!
     
  20. Ruds

    Ruds Initiate (0) Sep 15, 2008 England

    That is London and the UK in a nutshell - you'll pick up a safe drinkable (if somewhat boring at times) bitter in nearly every bar.

    For the exceptional you need to hit on certain venues with prior research, exactly the same as when I travel in the US.

    If you're in London again, BM me and we'll hit 3 bars around a mile apart with around 100 quality Handpumps/taps between them!
     
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