Black Lives Matter @BeerAdvocate

Blog Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by Todd, Jun 1, 2020.

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  1. mhucker28

    mhucker28 Crusader (466) Apr 24, 2020 California
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    You are referring to economic privilege, which is linked to white privilege, but are not the same thing.
     
  2. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,274) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    So you agree you’re oversimplifying things?
     
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  3. CB_Michigan

    CB_Michigan Maven (1,478) Sep 4, 2014 Illinois
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    I can understand why it might feel like an attack when someone uses that term, and nobody likes to feel accused of engaging in prejudicial behavior. I do, however, think it's important to discuss both sides of the coin when it comes to unequal treatment. There is mistreatment and oppression of some ethnicities on one side, but there is also an elevation of White people (speaking generally) and benefits that sometimes come at the expense of others. Here are some examples (all involving African-American friends of mine):

    - Went to a friend's office after lunch, I walked to the elevators while he was called back and asked to show his ID badge. He's worked there for 4 years.

    - In my daughter's first week of school, I got an email about therapy services. My friend has to call the same school every year and it's a struggle to even get her son evaluated.

    - In grad school, I'd be talking with one of my profs in his office and students would regularly stop by and address me instead of him.

    - I was fixing my car in our alley one night. Cop leaned out his window, asked what was wrong and gave me some helpful tips. My friend was under his car with the garage open and two squad cars zoom in with lights and sirens and order him to drop everything and "slowly roll out with his palms open."

    - I was pulling weeds after curfew this weekend and several cop cars drove right by. My neighbor took his dog out and within 15 seconds, there's flashing lights in front of his house and I hear the "er-er" bullhorn sound.

    I get the benefit of the doubt, people automatically assume I'm the authority figure, and my concerns are given more weight than those of my African-American friends. I am free to live my life without worrying about being falsely arrested or beat or shot by the police. Sometimes White Privilege is not obvious until you've personally experienced/witnessed this kind of disparity.
     
  4. William_Navidson

    William_Navidson Maven (1,451) May 1, 2015 Pennsylvania
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    They might not feel "privilege" overall, which is a result of severe class inequality, not because of their lack of white privilege. And whether they feel privileged or not does not have a bearing on whether they possess it.
     
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  5. William_Navidson

    William_Navidson Maven (1,451) May 1, 2015 Pennsylvania
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    Did you mean to reply to me?... I'm not sure how this applies to my comment you replied to.
     
  6. mhucker28

    mhucker28 Crusader (466) Apr 24, 2020 California
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    The protests that are occurring are linked specifically to racial discrimination, which is the topic of this here thread. You are bringing in economic factors that, while they may play a part, are not the reason for the protests. You are trying to bring the focus of a very particular issue elsewhere, and all that does is try to delegitimize the actual focus of these protests. You are essentially attending a breast cancer awareness fundraiser and going on about how prostate cancer kills people too. Sure, but that's not why we are here. Let's address this first.
     
  7. nc41

    nc41 Initiate (0) Sep 25, 2008 North Carolina
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    Well we’re all a product of where we live I suppose. Peace, but there’s so many variables here, so things shoot off course a bit. I’m older than most here, so this stuff isn’t new, in the late 60s it was pretty shitty, cities literally on fire. But we survived that, we will here as well, hopefully we come out better than where we started.
     
  8. dtv2001

    dtv2001 Initiate (0) Jul 26, 2003 Rhode Island

    Bravo Todd! Very well said.
     
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  9. CB_Michigan

    CB_Michigan Maven (1,478) Sep 4, 2014 Illinois
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    I'm not going to argue about poverty being crippling but let's consider a hypothetical involving two young men:
    One is White and from an impoverished area of Appalachia.
    The other is African-American from a working-class Chicago neighborhood.
    Both are really bright and bust their a**es off to get into a decent college, Notre Dame let 's say.
    Who is going to get more of the benefit of the doubt? Who is less likely to get harassed by the campus or South Bend police? Who is going to be watched more closely by the security guard at Best Buy?
    That's what many of us mean by White Privilege. Poor white kids in Appalachia (or wherever) can overcome their upbringing, escape poverty, and carve a new path or identity for themselves. African-American kids, no matter how hard they work or how accomplished they are, cannot escape the possibility that a bad 9-1-1 call or misunderstanding will lead to them being killed.
     
  10. I_Have_The_Runs

    I_Have_The_Runs Initiate (0) Nov 19, 2018 Illinois

    Eddie Murphy brought it to our attention 35 years ago.

     
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  11. William_Navidson

    William_Navidson Maven (1,451) May 1, 2015 Pennsylvania
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    Just to clarify... do you have a little better picture of the term "white privilege" and how it applies even to poor white people, now? Saying that someone has "white privilege" is not saying that they are "in general more privileged than all others," it is saying simply that they enjoy X privileges on account of their race. This leg up may mean that overall they have had many advantages, or it may be one of the few advantages they have been afforded.
     
    #251 William_Navidson, Jun 2, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
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  12. mhucker28

    mhucker28 Crusader (466) Apr 24, 2020 California
    Trader

    I mean, how much more likely is a black man going to be pulled over for simply driving a nice car than a white man? Both men could have been born into the same economic privilege as the other, but the racial inequality will still set them apart.
     
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  13. Longhorn08

    Longhorn08 Savant (1,085) Feb 4, 2014 Texas
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    I agree.

    There was a time when we said “I disagree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it”

    today we have “if you don’t agree with my point of view then YOU are a fascist!”
     
  14. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,274) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Bullshit. Blacks are disproportionately economically disadvantaged as well. By bringing this up how the fu*k am I delegitimizing anything?
     
  15. mhucker28

    mhucker28 Crusader (466) Apr 24, 2020 California
    Trader

    Look, if you can't see the difference, then I suggest you educate yourself as I have been trying to do as a privileged white male in these times.
     
  16. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,274) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    That doesn’t answer my question. Saying blacks are disproportionally killed by police is woke,but saying poor black men are disproportionally Killed by police makes me a fascist sexist white guy? Got it.
     
  17. mhucker28

    mhucker28 Crusader (466) Apr 24, 2020 California
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    oof...this ain't it man. Perhaps direct your anger to a more worthy cause than the BA forums.
     
  18. grilledsquid

    grilledsquid Initiate (0) Jul 10, 2009 California
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    You seem to be pushing this narrative that socioeconomic status/class is the root factor of the problems discussed in this thread. The problem with that concept is that it ignores the influence of implicit bias and systemic racism--more specifically the problematic culture in police forces. You're essentially absolving the police force of any wrongdoing and assigning all the blame to individual level actions. You need to disentangle class from race in order to understand the unjust killings of black folks at the hands of cops.
     
  19. anfield86

    anfield86 Pooh-Bah (2,594) Nov 21, 2006 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    One thing that really pisses me off, and I say this as a "person of color" (speaking of which: i fucking hate tribalism; i absolutely should not have to identify the fact i am "not white" in order to justify my opinion or perspective), is when white people try to boil down a very complex sociopolitical situation to rudimentary catch-all phrase like "all cops are bastards" or "if you're not part of the solution you are part of the problem". It is truly insulting to me and is, in my opinion, very detrimental to the progress that we are all striving to achieve.

    My cousin is a dark skinned (Latina) officer in New York, she has had to deal with more fucking bullshit these past few days than her most her her life growing up in the Bronx dealing with racism on a semi-daily basis. She, along with her fellow dark-skinned officers, are being unjustly persecuted in the court of public opinion. The racism, implicit bias which is occurring from white people who are supposedly "not racist" or "down with the cause" is extremely nauseating to me. These are the same very same pricks who are inciting riots, throwing bricks and purposefully distracting from a just and righteous protest. These sort of folks don''t care about fixing the problem, they just want to see our country torn apart. Nihilists and anarchists are trying to divide this country even further. They don't want us to live together; they want chaos and disorder and nothing more. These type of people make my blood boil. My grandfather endured years of racism (most shocking was when he was promptly told to leave a US Army dinner in GA, while in his full dress uniform, because they "don't serve their kind"...[thankfully a few of his white comrades saw this injustice and joined him in leaving the dinner]), fought for our freedoms against the Japanese WW2 and yet now these pricks want to destroy everything he fought for and everything he believed in. He loved this country with all his heart and now a small group of morons basically want to destroy his legacy. Fuck all of those people.


    TL;DR: now's not the time for white people to tell people what racism is and isn't. You guys don't know. You think you do because you've read some books and heard some podcasts, but you don't. Now's the time stfu and let people of color to let their voices be heard, whether you like it or not.
     
  20. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,274) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    https://psmag.com/news/police-are-m...n-poorer-more-highly-segregated-neighborhoods
    or
    https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/09/12...-one-us-city-hurts-black-and-poor-communities
    This is not an either or situation. Our economic situation is inherently racist. We should be moving forward to end them, but society will never overcome them if we continue to address them as separate issues.
     
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