Sierra Nevada Summerfest 2020

I am not sure that is true though. Here are 6 well known examples in order of IBUs:

Bitburger: 38 IBUs
Radeberger: 33 IBUs
Ayinger: 32 IBUs (Bavarian)
Weihenstephaner: 32 IBUs (Bavarian)
Veltins: 30 IBUs
Warsteiner: 28 IBUs

Other than the Bitburger, I wouldn't say there is any correlation. I feel that the Northern German Pils are lighter in body and possibly even seem dryer as a result. I presume this is due to more malt in the Bavarian examples but that could be my misconception based on the mouthfeel and balance.

BTW, I left Beck's off that list, at 21 IBUs, because that is essentially a Euro Lager nowadays.

 

First off, Hoppiness is not IBU alone. Hops have flavor and aroma too.

Take a look here. Toward the end of the sixth paragraph (yeah, I know there's a lotta info here):
"Northern German beers maybe somewhat higher in bitterness, but typically have less hop aroma, with Jever Pils being the most prominent example."

Pilsner between Bavaria, Bohemia and Dortmund isn't easily cut and dried. To me, Bavarian Pils is soft and lightly malty, Northern becomes more hop accented and a more minerally. Northeastern Pils (think Wernesgrüner) starts to reflect Bohemian influence with some more malt presence, and Bohemian becomes more malty... but then you start working further east and things start to change again -- try Urquell next to Golden Pheasant, for example.

 

So that link says that Bavarian ones have more hop aromas, while the Northern are more bitter. So that doesn't back up that the Northern ones are more hoppy. They simply aren't more hoppy, but they are lighter and often have more perceived bitterness as a result. But none of this is set in stone.

 

I can see that but instead of using the terminology of “higher malt presence” I would detail it as being a softer malt presence.

I have an article in the works with a working title of “Family of Pilsners” and below are some extracts applicable to this discussion:

Bohemian Pilsner

“For the case of Bohemian Pilsners (Czech Pale Lagers) the malt is Pilsner Malt which is produced from barley grown in the Czech Republic (typically the region of Moravia). For the case of Pilsner Urquell the barley is purchased by the brewery where they malt the barley at the brewery. Otherwise the Pilsner malt is purchased from a Czech Malting Company.

Malt goes through the process of mashing to convert the starches in the malt to a sugar liquid solution which is called wort. The resulting wort is then fermented by the lager yeast. The method of mashing to create the Bohemian Pilsner of 1842 was decoction mashing whereby a portion of the malt and liquid would be removed from the mashing vessel and boiled and subsequently returned to the mash vessel to increase the heat to a proper temperature to activate enzymes to convert starch to sugars. Pilsner Urquell to this day is mashed this way via a triple decoction mash. The high heat used to boil the malt and liquid during the decoction steps caramelizes some of the sugars and the resulting wort will experience some darkening. In addition, compounds called melanoidins are developed which provide a rich malt character to the resulting beer along with increased fullness to the beer’s body. One of the distinguishing features of Bohemian Pilsner as brewed in the Czech Republic is that decoction mashing is consistently employed.”

German Pilsner

“German Pilsners are often brewed using Noble Hops (i.e., Hallertauer Mittelfruh, Tettnanger, Spalt, Saaz) but German brewers will also use some other German grown hops as well. Some examples of relatively newer hop varieties which could be used are Saphir, Hersbrucker, and Perle. Just like the Bohemian Pilsner a triple hopped schedule is typically used for brewing the German Pilsner: bittering, flavor and aroma. Within Germany there is generally a difference in the level of hoppiness (e.g., bittering) between the Pilsners of Southern Germany and Northern Germany with the Pilsners of Northern Germany often being more hoppy (brewing water plays a role as well as will be further discussed).”

And:

“The brewing water of Germany will vary mostly in a South to North aspect. In Southern Germany the water used to brew the Pilsners tends to be lower in mineral content while the water used to brew the Pilsners in Northern Germany will have increased mineral content; in particular there is a greater amount of sulfate. This difference in brewing water gives the Northern German Pilsner a more pronounced hoppy character accented with a drier finish while those from the South are soft in comparison.”

Also:

“German Pilsners are also produced using Pilsner Malt which are typically produced by German (or other European) Malting companies. Decoction mashing was employed in the past but due to the higher energy costs of this process most German breweries today instead employ a step mash. The prevalent step mash employed is referred to as the Hochkurz Mash whereby the malt is mashed to achieve two steps in temperature for activating enzymes to convert the starch to sugars and then one more step to denature the enzymes (referred to as a mash out). The net result is that both the combination of differing malts and a differing mashing regime means that the German Pilsner will typically differ from a Bohemian Pilsner in both color and malt flavor character; the German Pilsner will be very light in color (typically straw colored) and there will be a lesser amount of malt flavors from melanoidins (i.e., a less rich malty character).”

In a subsequent post you made mention of: “But none of this is set in stone”. Those are words of wisdom because while there is a general trend, there will indeed be some exceptions as well.

Cheers!

 

Thanks for that. As I alluded to, I didn't know the details, I just know how I perceive them.

 

@JackHorzempa

If you're working on an article, your comment on German water hardness is too broad of a brush. The hardness can vary over a few 10s of kilometers, or less. Where I lived the water wasn't so good, it came from the river. On the north side of the city the water came from the mountains, and was much better. Here is one map from a Google search. Note that there is soft water in the North.
https://tappwater.co/en/can-i-drink-tap-water-in-germany-2/

Not all Pilsner in Bavaria is like around Munich. Some one with good hop aroma, flavor, and a dry finish include Keesmann Herren Pils, Schönramer Pils, Würzburger Pils. None of those examples are near Munich.

 

Agreed. Have a Lager of the Lakes next to a Pilsner Urquell and you’ll notice big differences in my opinion.

The more Summerfest I drink this year though, there’s just SOMETHING different with it that makes it stand out. It’s this addictive and delicious sweet aspect to the malt profile that I can’t quite pin down. It’s like this different version of the sweet graham cracker like Pils malt quality I get in great examples of Pilsner, but I can’t figure out exactly what it is.

I can see this. I could even be swayed into agreeing that Southern German Pils (in the broad sense) have more in common with Czech Pale Lagers than Northern German Pilsners.

 

Try Wernesgruner alongside Weihenstephaner Pils. Best example of the wide difference I can make. Then try PU in the mix -- it'll surprise you.

 

I’m trying to think if we get Wernesgruner where I am.

The trick will then be finding it fresh (fresh for an import) and THEN finding Weihenstephan’s Pils fresh-ish as well.

 

Aldi. And they date clearly -- I can usually find it only 2 or 3 months old.

You're on your own with Weihenstephaner. Maybe Rothaus instead, but it's not really Bavarian.

 

Damn, that WAS an excellent review. Now I want to pick some Lager of the Lakes up. It really is a great beer.

 

I was about to say we don’t have Aldi here, and lo and behold, there’s one two miles from me and I never knew it. Only one in the area. And then I was about to say, “well they probably don’t sell beer”, and they do!

And whaddya know, they have Wernesgruner Pils. I don’t think I’ve ever had it either!

 

Wernesgruner is imported exclusively by Aldi in the US.

Be careful you don't grab the dark, the packaging is very similar. It's good beer, but not going to compare well to Pils.

 

As was mentioned in my above post:

“But none of this is set in stone”. Those are words of wisdom because while there is a general trend, there will indeed be some exceptions as well.

Cheers!

 

Micheal Jackson had written about it in one of his books ages ago, when it was brewed behind the Iron Curtain in Saxony. I remember finding it some time ago, and was not disappointed.

We've been drinking it also. The local Aldi moves a lot of it. Last ones had a best by date of 8/2021.

Summerfest might be closer to Wernersgrüner than the others mentioned, though boy does it have more hops going on.

 

Man, both you and @steveh have me really excited to try this one. I'm also curious what an Aldi is like, never been to one.

I've been drinking a TON of Pilsner during the shut down, both local and national. It's been awhile since I've had an import, will be good to have some on hand. A lot of my import purchases were on draft, and well...

 

Aldi stores are low price. The selection of beer will be limited, unlike a local grocery. My wife likes those stores, as they do carry some German food brands. They have German week in the Spring and Fall, where more German items are brought in for a limited time.

The Albrecht brothers were the richest in Germany when they died.

 

From these comments, it seems like the beer cannot be selling too badly.

 

What would be most helpful is knowing exactly how much Summerfest was sold (i.e., how many barrels) and what the sales goals were. Maybe somebody (@SierraTerence) would be willing to educate us here.

Cheers!

 

The can option never got closer than 7 miles to me. (I'm too lazy to drive that far since bottles are readily available nearby)