"Craft or crafty? Consumers deserve to know the truth"

Let me rephrase. Is there another regional brewer like Schell's and Yuengling that is old and traditional and produces craft beer and would likely be considered a craft brewer by the BA if it weren't for having "too much" adjunct beer in their portfolio?

As for the "arbitrary" comment, well, that's what happens when you try to craft a specific definition that makes absolutely clear who is in and who is out. I think they've done a pretty good job, though there is always room for improvement.

“I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody.”
--Bill Cosby

 

And there's the thread-ender! Well said.

 

Don't you think that deciding whether or not you actually like the beer from a brewery is better then letting someone else tell you what to drink?

 

Well since I don't have the time or money to buy one bottle of every single beer ever made, I sometimes rely on the opinions of others when looking for new things to try. Thanks for being completely unhelpful, though.

 

It's not about trying every beer you think you want (oh wait -- you're a "ticker" aren't you?), it's about enjoying the ones you find.

The "helpful" side is the instruction to decide for yourself. At least once in your life.

 

There will also be mergers. We have seen some of that already. Magic Hat/Pyramid. Widmer/Red Hook/Kona.

 

I think the third on the list was Straub

course when I want an AAL, I go for Gansett, boo hoo they're brewed at another brewery and use adjuncts in their AAL

 

Well, there are only ten breweries left that date from the pre-Pro>post-Repeal era that once brewed only or predominantly AAL's (maybe eleven if you consider City the direct successor to Heileman, but they own no brands - if you see "La Crosse, WI, "Latrobe, PA" or "Memphis, TN" on a label it was brewed by City):

On the B.A. "Blacklist" as Non-Craft

Schell​

Minhas (ex-Huber) - their own brands and lots of contracts, craft and non-craft​

Straub - all adjuncts​

The Lion - their own brands (inc. "craft-ish" Stegmaier) and lots of contracts, craft and non-craft​

Yuengling (all adjunct beers)​

Now considered "Craft" (but all brew some adjuncts)

F. X. Matt​

Spoetzl (Gambrinus-owned, 'Shiner' brand)​

Stevens Point​

Not listed, but probably not craft

Genesee (NAB-owned) "craft-ish" Dundee line, and lots of contracts, craft and non-craft​

Cold Spring/Third St. Brewhouse - own brands, some 'craft-ish' + lots of contracts, craft and non-craft​

 

Wait, widmer too!?

 

Anheuser Busch bought into Widmer in 1997 (so, predating the Redhook-Widmer merger that created Craft Brews Alliance that now includes Kona, too).

 

Thanks jesskidden and mschofield! I have limited exposure to these -- only really see the Dundee and the F.X. Matt stuff here. Oh and the Sixpoint cans. It would be fun to decide for myself some day how bad (if at all) I feel about the exclusion of Schell, Minhas, Straub, and the Lion from the BA "craft brewers" list if the accident would happen.

 

Not any on the list that I'd avoid because the BA might label it non-craft. Although, a few I'd avoid because I know the beer is not all that good. Schell, Spoetzl, and Point are all making some terrific beers worth drinking.

Funny thing about Minhas is their contract brewing -- for some "breweries" that are supported by members of the BA, such as 5 Rabbit.

 

is there any forum member here who is actually a representative or employee of the brewer's association?

 

Did myself a favor and checked the big two's websites, wrote down all the labels they own/produce, keep the list handy when I choose what I am going to spend my dollars on. Just to be sure I know where my money is going, and ultimately what type of product/philosophy I am going to support. My friends think I'm crazy, but don't hesitate to refer to my lists!

 

Just a thought, and maybe you guys have already discussed this, but what about developing a certified graphic that these independent companies could use on their labels? Be so transparent to the public so that their(big conglomerates) non transparency in effect hurts them anyway.

 

What about brewers like Dann Paquette from Pretty Things, he's technically a 'contract brewer' (he calls himself a 'tenant brewer'...and rightfully so) but he's the one actually making his beer, despite not owning the equipment or space and having a 'contract' to use the facility he's still the brewmaster of whatever ends up in his bottles. I'm sure there are plenty examples out there of smaller companies that have obscure deals that allow them to get their beer made, which without some kind of shared interest it would otherwise be dead in the water. Wouldn't it just be more transparent and appropriate to just list the brewmaster.

 

SamC from DFH is the chair of the B.A. directors. How is that for one!

 

ah, right. here's a quote from sam's contribution to this thread (http://beeradvocate.com/community/t...-deserve-to-know-the-truth.55402/#post-730223) :

i guess this an interesting distinction. so can a non-craft brewer (BA definition) like yuengling or schell therefore still brew a "craft beer"?

 

As I noted in the other thread on this topic, the Brewers Association's website used to state"...a craft beer can only be made by a craft brewer..." but that statement has since been deleted. Despite the euphemisms (like tenant) and various different legal arrangements (Alternating Proprietorship, etc) used by contractee brewers because of the negative connotation attached to "contract brewer", I suppose the statement could have struck some of them as being able to be applied to their situation. Remember, when the BAA and AoB merged to form the current B.A. in 2005, much of the production of the Samuel Adams brands was coming out of the decidedly non-craft Miller brewery in Eden, NC.

The reverse situation, a "craft beer" made by a small brewer disqualified because of one or more of the B.A.'s 3 point definition, isn't the concern of the organization (why promote a beer not made by one of it's members?). Certainly the "faux" crafts made by AB or MC are never going to be called "craft" by the B.A.

But, it should also be noted that while Jace Marti specifically mentioned Yuengling's place on the B.A. Blacklist pdf, and the two brewers might share factors like long family-owned histories and adjunct flagships, their relationship with the Brewers Association is, in some ways, the opposite. Schell was a long-time member of the old "small brewers" organization, the Brewers Association of America (Warren Marti was on the board in the 70's, along with folks like Joe Ortlieb, Fred Huber, Wm Leinenkugel and Fritz Maytag). It sounds, from Jace Marti's letter, that they left after the merger, specifically over the convoluted "craft" definition.

Yuengling, OTOH, was not in the old BAA but did join the craft-oriented B.A., but only last year- so, well aware of the "craft" definition and various controversies. Some early articles about Yuengling's entry even addressed the fact that they were not going to be listed as "craft". (Interestingly, "Non-craft" brewers can belong to the B.A., all the individual AB and MC breweries pay maximum dues, as do the CBA breweries, both Leinenkugel plants, etc. Sort of the reverse of Grocho Marx's “I don’t want to belong to any club that would accept me as one of its members.”)

So, Yuengling's sizable barrelage - nearing 3m (so, alone over 20% the size of all "Craft") - is not counted in the annual BA Press Release. Unfortunately, last I looked I can no longer find any of the references to Yuengling's refusal/denial of the "craft" designation (compounded by the unavailability of the old forums).

Also, even if one were to accept the B.A.'s definition of "Traditional", Schell brews numerous beers that fit that "no corn/rice = traditional". Yuengling does not brew any, using corn grits in all it's beers. Obviously, if Gambrinus' Spoetzl's flagship Shiner Bock can get the "corn used to enhance, not lighten" ruling, Yuengling probably could have, too.

 

You should do that for Germany too. It'll rule out a LOT of the stuff you're getting offered as high priced import beer.