Immersion Cooler vs Plate Chiller vs Counterflow Chiller

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by KPlen, Jul 9, 2022.

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  1. KPlen

    KPlen Zealot (503) Apr 19, 2017 Colorado

    I think it is going to be a struggle to get my wort down to pitching temp (50 degrees) using my Immersion Chiller. My groundwater right now is about 60 degrees. Even submerging the kettle in an ice bath and using the Immersion Chiller, I doubt I can get the temp down that low. So, will a Plate Chiller or a Counterflow Chiller be able to get the temps down that low? Or is it going to be the same issue with the temp of my groundwater? What would be my best route? Get a Plate Chiller or a Counterlow Chiller and use my immersion chiller in an ice bath to cool the water down before it gets to the Plate Chiller/Counterflow Chiller? Any other alternatives I am missing?
     
  2. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    As you correctly surmised, your ground water temp is your limiting factor. I have tried using two chillers, with one in an ice bath as a pre-chiller. It's an improvement, but there's a much more effective way. I chill with an immesion chiller in the normal way until the rate of chilling slows significantly. When that happens, I switch over to pumping ice water from my utility sink through the chiller and back into the same sink, recirculating. Here's the pump I use:

    [​IMG]

    I think it has been discontinued, but there are some similar pumps available.
     
  3. NeroFiddled

    NeroFiddled Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,276) Jul 8, 2002 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I think @VikeMan has a great set up and second it. Cooling your wort can be an issue even for professional brewers, particularly ones who are doing heavy late-hop beers because you can't let them sit. But the factor here is time, and if you're trying to hit 50˚F I'm assuming you're doing lagers. In that case I'll say that you don't have to worry so much about time. It's important, yes, you want to get that wort chilled - but you probably have some leeway. One thing that I used to do in the summer was to put my kettle into the sink during the whirlpool in an ice bath. The movement of the wort against the side of the kettle pulled out a lot of heat BUT ice costs money so there's that.
     
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  4. KPlen

    KPlen Zealot (503) Apr 19, 2017 Colorado

    Perfect!! Appears I can get a pump for about $50.00, versus a plate or counterflow chiller which are running $100 at the low end. Much Appreciated!!!
     
  5. Supergenious

    Supergenious Maven (1,273) May 9, 2011 Michigan

    You can get an aquarium pump for a about $20 and serve the same purpose. Personally, I would save yourself the trouble and just get a plate chiller. It’s well worth the investment.
     
    PortLargo likes this.
  6. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I'm not exactly sure how to define "aquarium" pump, but @KPlen make sure the specs are comparable, or you may not get a high enough flow rate to be effective. The one I posted is often called a pond pump.

    Also, Plate chillers are great. I've used them in various sizes in comm'l breweries. But they have the same basic limitation as any chiller that uses water i.e. they won't chill wort to a temperature lower than the source water temp. I don't know about Colorado, but here in PA, I need ice to reach lager pitch temps for much of the year. @KPlen if you want to try a plate chiller to solve your issue, be sure to measure the temp of your ground water before you buy.
     
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  7. Supergenious

    Supergenious Maven (1,273) May 9, 2011 Michigan

    Something like this. The one I have is rated to 3500 L/hr which is about 15 gpm. Which should be enough flow rate. I also have used it to drain my hot tub.
    VIVOSUN 800GPH Submersible Pump(3000L/H, 24W), Ultra Quiet Water Pump with 10ft. High Lift, Fountain Pump with 6.5ft. Power Cord, 3 Nozzles for Fish Tank, Pond, Aquarium, Statuary, Hydroponics https://a.co/d/baSKIWi
     
  8. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    Your problem is not the set-up. Do what you can to get as efficient as possible, but simple math (trust me, I'm a historian) will tell you 50F wort is not possible with 60F cooling water. An ice bath is only a small benefit, as many of us know first hand.

    A few hacks to help out.
    • Freeze a few 1 liter bottles of water. More than a few. Remove the labels and sanitize the outside. Toss those in as needed. It is not particularly efficient, but it will help to crash the temp.
    • Stir the wort as it cools. You need the wort to contact the chill coil continually. This is a big time saver.
    • Drain the discharge water into a washing machine. You'll get luke warm wash water but it will make you feel better.
    • Be prepared to pitch as soon as you can.
    Biggest take away here.
    • You will find 60F chill water is very effective at getting the wort down below, say 120F. It's not going to be a dramatic difference between 50F or even 40F chill water and 60F chill water. You'll drop to 100F? 130F? relatively quickly. From 100F to 80F takes time. From 80F to 50F takes a long time.

      Point being, as you get closer to the chill water temperature the efficiency drops quickly. So, save those 1L ice bombs until you see the temperature decline slow to a crawl.
    Cheers
     
  9. Applecrew135

    Applecrew135 Crusader (431) Jul 18, 2012 Pennsylvania

    I do the same thing with my immersion chiller. Chill using my groundwater from well, then switch to ice bath in cooler. No problem getting to lager pitching temp.
     
    VikeMan likes this.
  10. JoeSpartaNJ

    JoeSpartaNJ Zealot (691) Feb 5, 2008 New Jersey

  11. Eggman20

    Eggman20 Crusader (433) Feb 14, 2017 Minnesota

    If you are using a chest freezer (or whatever you plan to maintain the lager yeast temp) you can just use that to lower the temps after using the immersion chiller. I usually just toss the yeast in after getting below 70 and then chill the remainder down in the chest freezer. I used to wait until it got to pitching temp but for the sake of time I went this route and haven’t noticed any differences
     
    jbakajust1 likes this.
  12. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    I'll second @Eggman20 if you are trying to brew a lager, then you have to have a way to keep the ferm temps in the 45-55 range. If that is so, use the same method to finish your chilling. I get my wort down to mid-low 60s, transfer, throw it in the fridge, then pitch when it gets down to 55.
     
    OldBrewer likes this.
  13. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Maven (1,385) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    I use the same method as explained by @jbakajust1. I also wait until I reach lager temperature before pitching the yeast. I usually initiallly set the chest freezer for a temperature lower than lager temperature to speed up the cooling. When it gets close, I re-adjust it.
     
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  14. barleyhead

    barleyhead Devotee (341) Jun 5, 2008 New Jersey

    I use a counter-flow chiller (25ft 3/8-inch copper tubing inside 3/4-inch hose) with a ball valve to control the flow rate. These chillers have a lot of surface area for transferring heat to water.
    Wort exits the kettle at ~212F. With 60F chill water the wort exiting the chiller gets down below 65F depending on the water flow rate. Water exiting is dangerously hot and is good for cleaning.

    Cleaning the chiller does take a little more time and effort but I think it is worth it. After cleaning I fill with a mixture of iodophor and water to keep any bad stuff from growing. Been using the same chiller for over 10 years and is still good.

    Happy Chilling!
     
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