Night Shift moves majority of production off-site

Discussion in 'New England' started by brother_rebus, Jul 27, 2022.

  1. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Grand Pooh-Bah (3,862) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    LynnHomeBrewer and mickyge like this.
  2. mhull

    mhull Crusader (415) Apr 11, 2008 Massachusetts
    Trader

    More people would probably be willing to give them some slack and ask less probing questions if two co-founders weren't on completely different pages on the same day.
     
  3. BadBehaviorInVermont

    BadBehaviorInVermont Initiate (74) May 13, 2021

    Exactly.

    Rob's quotes in BrewBound and Facebook are wildly different than the reality painted by Rob and Michael in the GBH article.

    The company isn't doing well financially and needs to course-correct to make sure the company stays afloat. It's a sad reality.
     
  4. moodenba

    moodenba Pooh-Bah (1,833) Feb 2, 2015 New York
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Great idea. It looks like even moderately sized brewers could conserve CO2. https://foodandbeverage.pentair.com...MI45DI5t-b-QIVCrjICh27_Q4iEAAYASAAEgKqtvD_BwE
    However, there is capital investment, plus continuing overhead costs to accomplish this. There is little effective thought in the craft brewing industry to real environmental costs. In fact, the CO2 released in brewing is a miniscule factor in the increase of CO2 in the atmosphere. Look to CO2 from burning of coal, oil and gas as the overwhelming source of the greenhouse effect.
     
  5. wasatchback

    wasatchback Maven (1,460) Jan 12, 2014 Tajikistan
    Trader

    There is a company from Austin that is installing Co2 recapture equipment all over the US. Treehouse, Alchemist, Trillium, are just a few in New England that utilize it.
     
    LynnHomeBrewer likes this.
  6. EnronCFO

    EnronCFO Pooh-Bah (1,969) Mar 29, 2007 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Among the newest, most profitable and in-demand craft breweries in the country, too. No clue how viable it is to retrofit a system like Night Shift’s that was big but cobbled together
     
  7. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,071) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Ya know, a decade or so ago when I heard that most "craft" breweries bought their CO2, a by-product of other industries, I was kinda surprised.

    "But, but... they claim to be "craft" brewers."'
    "Yeah, but it's cheaper to just buy it."
    "Yes, but so are a lot of other brewing ingredients and techniques used by the macro brewers they demonize like (
    blah, blah, blah...)."
    "
    (Rolls eyes at naive guy as he walks away...)"

    But, then, you'd think I'd have been used to it, since similar things happened with other aspect of macro brewing and its "yellow, fizzy beer" that were once ridiculed by the beer geek but now accepted as "craft" like force carbonation in general (even using brewery-produced CO2), hop pellets, hop extract, adjunct use esp. corn syrup/ sugar, high gravity brewing, shortened lagering periods, manipulating yeast or speeding up fermentation, etc.

    That once extended to things like canning beer, wasteful packaging, selling beer based on image, branding or label rather than quality ingredients and traditional methods and so on. Craft brewers were supposed to be above that. :rolling_eyes: Of course, they weren't - it was just a different sort of marketing, one that was a lot cheaper than advertising on the Super Bowl. Plus, the beer geeks were doing their work at proselytizing "Craft Beer" for free!

    Hell, the very concept of brewing beers based on the market was once a favorite punching bag for the then-new microbreweries -
    "We brew the beer we like to drink, and if any is left we sell it."
    "Anheuser Busch spills more beer in a day that we brew all year."

    Collecting and re-using carbon dioxide from the brewery's own fermentation tanks was once a standard process in the pre-craft era, as seen in these "snips" from schematics of breweries from the 1930-1940s and quotes from The Master Brewers Association of the Americas THE PRACTICAL BREWER.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    #47 jesskidden, Jul 28, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2022
    Ericness, pjeagles, F2brewers and 6 others like this.
  8. robNSB

    robNSB Zealot (593) Oct 6, 2009 Massachusetts


    Hi all - Yes, its unfortunate that the GBH article took some liberties in creating a narrative that doesn't exist. Just to be clear - Night Shift isn't going out of business. Nor are we in financial distress. This isn't a last ditch effort to save the business.

    We presented honest truths and it appears some think there is other things afloat. CO2 is today's challenge. The real problem is spelled out in our post. The Everett brewery is not able to maintain production at the 20,000+ bbls volume number it has operated for the last 4 years. This was something we have worked to solve as best as possible for a number of years to avoid making this tough decision.

    No one has been laid off. We gave a heads up that the current level of volume produced at Everett is changing and in 2 months the team will be smaller. We are still going to be brewing beer in Everett. We employee 150 people and a likely less than 10 roles will be impacted. That doesn't negate the emotional and tough part about this decision. Nor is the news any softer for those impacted. We are doing our best to find them new roles at other places. Many breweries are in need of production team members and have already reached out.

    Co2 is a contracted raw material and different breweries have different contracts with different suppliers. We are working to get more Co2 in from new suppliers many are cautious to take on new customers as they want to protect existing customer needs.

    If you would like real answers to questions, I am happy to answer.

    Cheers,
     
    Rug, meefmoff, F2brewers and 7 others like this.
  9. 777

    777 Initiate (0) Feb 7, 2010 New Jersey

    The CO2 thing is a bit of a red herring that not many I've spoken to are buying. Not saying they're lying about that, I'm sure it's a real issue for them, but they're pretty clearly attempting to use that as a convenient excuse for years of mismanagement and poor decision making from the top down. For one, why is no one else having this issue? I'll eat crow if a bunch of breweries start running out of CO2, but this seems to be much more of a Night Shift problem than a CO2 problem.

    They had similar statements of "remain calm, everything is fine" about their wholesaler arm, and we all saw what ultimately happened there. As others have pointed out, some of their quotes outside of this forum are rather ominous and much less rosy than the message posted here. They want to lower their retail prices on store shelves, in an inflationary environment, even though they have negative cash flow..... uh how does that work, exactly? Good luck trying to thread that needle.

    Only question I have is who buys the brand, because that seems pretty clearly to me where this is going.
     
  10. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    I have a general question: were the quotes ascribed to Michael Oxton in the GBH article accurate?

    See extracts copied below, with emphasis in bold by me.

    Cheers!

    Night Shift co-founder Michael Oxton says outsourcing production is necessary to keep the company afloat, which includes eventually phasing out a dozen brewing positions. He declined to specify how much money would be saved in the new arrangement, saying that “this move is not about saving us more money, but primarily about preventing us from going out of business." Oxton declined to elaborate further.”

    And:

    “Oxton says outsourcing production is necessary to keep the company afloat. “They’re not always decisions we want to make, but it’s a preservation atmosphere. … We just literally cannot afford to keep these production people on and make beer here,” Oxton says.”

    Also:

    “He says Night Shift did spend “a lot” on marketing events, paid social media posts, merchandise, and other marketing that year. Now the company must shed payroll to preserve itself.”

    It sounds like obtaining an assured delivery of CO2 is challenging situation but the above quotes paint a much broader challenge for Night Shift Brewing Co.

    Also, I asked you in a previous post:

    “Did you consider implementing a CO2 recovery system to provide your CO2 needs?” You have not responded to that post, could you please answer that question.

    Cheers!
     
  11. PA-Michigander

    PA-Michigander Grand Pooh-Bah (3,248) Nov 10, 2013 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Rob, why didn’t Michael make any mention of CO2 in his litany of reasons for these changes? I think this is the biggest (one of the biggest) issue people here have. You make it seem like it’s a singular issue but he lists a lot of reasons and doesn't mention CO2.

    I was an OG Night Shift membership member, have been to the brewery multiple times and want to see your success. Some things just don’t appear to line up.
     
    GonzoHomebrewer, gabea and AlcahueteJ like this.
  12. angelosk

    angelosk Initiate (0) Sep 20, 2014 Massachusetts

    Oh. Night shift still brews beer? How will this impact the wine, cider, seltzer, food truck business? I was an OG fan that lost faith when Founders (capitalized F intentional) diversified their attention to anything that was trending.

    Regardless good luck. I still wear your run club t-shirts with pride.
     
    GonzoHomebrewer likes this.
  13. robNSB

    robNSB Zealot (593) Oct 6, 2009 Massachusetts


    Awesome to hear you are an OG member! Do you still have the wooden membership card?

    Not sure what you are asking. Co2 impacts this week's production but its not the reason for scaling back production in Everett long term. As an OG fan, we moved to Santilli hwy when all our beer was in glass 750ml corked or capped bottles. We had just 16k sq feet in the center of the building. We had one canning run with Iron Heart - I think we were customer #2 for them. We built the original plant to do a few thousand bbls of beer production. Now we are producing north of 20k bbls and its mostly going into cans. That might not sound crazy different but it is.

    Sorry to hear you lost faith. But awesome that you still rock the shirt.

    Beer is the vast majority of what we sell. Wine is only sold in our locations. MA laws require us to become a winery and make wine in house or for our brand if we want to sell wine. Cider is same thing - for guests who visit us. Those fully fill that person in the group that isn't a beer drinker. Doesn't seem like you care - but the wine is really good. It has to be. Seltzer is our 4th biggest product family. And if it's not for you, that's totally Ok. We don't run the food truck. We own the truck but lease it to our friends at Brato to run and they crush it.
     
  14. moodenba

    moodenba Pooh-Bah (1,833) Feb 2, 2015 New York
    Pooh-Bah Society

    All good questions, but I think I can answer this one. Night Shift seems to be having financial problems, likely with eroding markets, so further capital investment doesn't seem prudent right now. Their existing facility might not be easily adaptable to a retrofit CO2 system, causing costs to rise well above those encountered if the system were included in the initial planning/construction.
     
    Auror likes this.
  15. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Nothing personal but I would strongly prefer for Rob Burns to reply/answer my questions.

    Cheers!

    P.S. In post #21 I already stated: "Is it a situation that for Night Shift that implementing a CO2 recovery system just wasn't feasible (e.g., too much capital cost,"
     
  16. robNSB

    robNSB Zealot (593) Oct 6, 2009 Massachusetts

    Yes, we have looked at CO2 recapture in the past and actually got a new quote earlier this week. Need to evaluate all options. Co2 system for our size is a 6 figure investment but isn't immediate solution to today's problem (ie. takes time to order/install). The bigger problem is the production space isn't functional as is. Spending more money on something like a Co2 recapture, only solves today's problem and not the larger challenges.
     
  17. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Well, hindsight is always 20/20 but implementing a CO2 recovery system as part of the investments you made over the past few years would have eliminated this specific issue today.
    I recognize that your existing brewery (Everett) is insufficient for your production needs/goals. It is unfortunate that your Philly expansion had to be canceled.

    You could have continued with parallel production of Night Shift Brewing beer at both your existing facility (with a CO2 recovery system) and contract brewing but it is clear you made a business decision to just go the contract brewing route.

    I will continue to monitor the supply of CO2 situation industry wide. In discussion with other brewers I learned that they have in the past experienced delayed and/or reduced shipment of CO2 but none have ever reported that they would be cut-off for a year (or even a month). It would seem that Night Shift Brewing is in a unique situation here (but maybe other craft breweries will be impacted in the future?).

    I am still interested in reading your reply to my question: "were the quotes ascribed to Michael Oxton in the GBH article accurate?"

    Cheers!
     
    #57 JackHorzempa, Jul 28, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2022
  18. robNSB

    robNSB Zealot (593) Oct 6, 2009 Massachusetts

    Yes, hindsight is 20/20 and we learn more every day. Again - we are continuing production in Everett in parallel with more volume being move to partner breweries. That is the plan.

    Like you noted, it's unlikely that it would be a year long situation with Co2. One of the main sources of Co2 from our supplier hopes to be back online in the next 30-60 days. And it seems we might get a shipment of Co2 Friday afternoon (at a massively expensive premium) but after that - its unclear. To repeat - we will still brew in Everett.

    Not sure what quotes you are referring to but happy to clarify things.

    Cheers,
    Rob
     
    AlcahueteJ likes this.
  19. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    From post #50 above:

    I have a general question: were the quotes ascribed to Michael Oxton in the GBH article accurate?

    See extracts copied below, with emphasis in bold by me.

    Cheers!

    Night Shift co-founder Michael Oxton says outsourcing production is necessary to keep the company afloat, which includes eventually phasing out a dozen brewing positions. He declined to specify how much money would be saved in the new arrangement, saying that “this move is not about saving us more money, but primarily about preventing us from going out of business." Oxton declined to elaborate further.”

    And:

    “Oxton says outsourcing production is necessary to keep the company afloat. “They’re not always decisions we want to make, but it’s a preservation atmosphere. … We just literally cannot afford to keep these production people on and make beer here,” Oxton says.”

    Also:

    “He says Night Shift did spend “a lot” on marketing events, paid social media posts, merchandise, and other marketing that year. Now the company must shed payroll to preserve itself.”

    Cheers!
     
  20. BadBehaviorInVermont

    BadBehaviorInVermont Initiate (74) May 13, 2021

    @robNSB what's your favorite beer that Night Shift doesn't currently produce?

    Also appreciate you chiming in here!