"Craft or crafty? Consumers deserve to know the truth"

Discussion in 'Beer News' started by Todd, Dec 13, 2012.

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  1. familydog

    familydog Initiate (0) Jul 11, 2006 Pennsylvania

    This may or may not be true. However, the beer drinkers in question (and the focus of the original post) are the average consumer. People posting on this message board are not the average consumer.
     
    Ford likes this.
  2. JediMatt

    JediMatt Zealot (549) Jun 18, 2010 Iowa

    I definitely agree that the harm caused by ABI is insignificant compared to "real" problems in the world. However, this is a beer site. So beer issues are going to be the top priority HERE.

    And I disagree with your idea that if I boycott ABI, I have to boycott every big "evil" company in the world. If I can't boycott them all, I shouldn't boycott any? That makes no sense. I boycott several companies that I don't agree with their ideals/business practices/whatever. But I can't feasibly boycott them all. I do what I can. /shrug
     
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  3. buzze40

    buzze40 Initiate (0) Mar 9, 2010 Illinois

    yeah, I agree... thats why once goose island got taken over the operation got more efficient and the price of BC Coffee went... oh wait.. well, I still agree.
     
  4. buzze40

    buzze40 Initiate (0) Mar 9, 2010 Illinois

    I agree with you too! Yeah! Lets stick it to the man. My truck will be parked in front of Goose Island tomorrow and everyone bring their bottles of Bourbon County (especially coffee and cherry made this year under the new management) and throw them in my truck and I will dispose of them in protest.... Heck, show em how mad you are... bring your King Henrys, Brambles and Rares too!
     
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  5. notjustgc

    notjustgc Initiate (0) Nov 15, 2008 New Jersey

    Let's not get crazy. I'm just saying that I don't get a warm fuzzy feeling when I help pay for efforts to marginalize independent brewers and regain total domination of retail shelf space.
     
  6. beerjerk666

    beerjerk666 Grand Pooh-Bah (5,081) Aug 22, 2010 Florida
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    http://beerpulse.com/2013/01/massachusetts-based-beer-retailer-to-drop-crafty-brands-from-shelves/

    Smart business move or mistake?

    Seems like a smart way to carve out a niche in the market place.
     
  7. ElGallo

    ElGallo Pooh-Bah (2,233) Sep 26, 2009 New Hampshire
    Pooh-Bah Society

    It's their company, so they can do whatever they want. My concern has always been that craft-only shops have no choice but to inflate prices to make ends meet. Not sure if this is the case with Craft Bier Cellar, but we have examples in NH (Bert's, Top Shelf).
     
  8. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,071) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    "Craft" has long been related to brewery size since the term began being used as a replacement for "microbrew" in the late '80's, by brewers and beer writers.

    The retailer mentioned is obviously using the Brewers Association definition of "craft brewer" in which case it is not Pyramid's size that makes it non-craft, but the fact that the brewery is wholly owned by NAB which is primarily an adjunct lager importer (Labatt) and brewer (Genesee) as well as now being owned by the foreign, non-craft company, Cerveceria Costa Rica/Florida Ice and Farm Company.
     
  9. Giantspace

    Giantspace Pooh-Bah (2,879) Dec 22, 2011 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    I drink what I like. I do like craft beer much better than macro. Given the equal taste and price of two beers I would pick the micro every time as I prefer the "underdog". I still buy macro beers and have PBR in the fridge most times. I love GI Sophie and till I find a readily available substitute at the same or less price I will still buy it unless the quality/tastes change. I love barrel aged stouts. Bought my first GI Bourbon County this year. Have not cracked it yet. At $6 a bottle it sure beats $15-25 bottles of other stouts in the bomber and 750 sizes. There are times I do not have the money to buy a case of Lagunitas so I buy PBR or Yuengling cans for less than half. It comes down to money a lot of times. If I was Bill Gates I would probably never drink macro again as I would be able to afford any beer from any brewer I wanted. There are many worse companies out there than beer companies. Wal Mart comes to mind. If you shop there and have issue with big beer companies maybe you should rethink a few things.

    Enjoy
     
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  10. loafinaround

    loafinaround Initiate (0) Jul 16, 2011 New York

    honestly, I don't think craft brewers... all 2700 of them, will ever dominate the market share. Most people buy food according to price, not quality. Over time, processed low quality food affects the taste buds so these flavors are expected, even if they're fairly horrendous and artificial (ex. most soda and prepackaged bread). So, even though a good portion of americans CAN afford better quality food, it no longer tastes familiar and therefore home-made from scratch is not even desirable.
    Just as craft cheeses will never outsell Kraft cheeses, craft beer will never outsell bud. Many Americans never even drank a non-mass produced beer. They have no idea of what a proper beer, made in batches as it has for millenia, should taste like.
    That being said, there SHOULD be a craft beer distribution revolution.... so all the microbreweries are no longer at the distribution whims of the big 3. Wouldn't doubt that could increase market share over 10%. That's the only real competition between bud and micros.
     
  11. kelvarnsen

    kelvarnsen Pundit (944) Nov 30, 2011 Canada (ON)


    I really think that when the majority of beer drinkers look for something to drink their only requirements are something that is:
    • refreshing/thirst quenching
    • doesn't require mixing or multiple ingredients
    • isn't considered girly
    • and will get them just moderately drunk like if they are drinking a bunch over an afternoon
    For people who are looking for something like this why worry about things like specialty malts and hop flavour, which is why I think it would be extremely hard for craft brewers to capture a significant market share. They are basically selling a different product.
     
  12. loafinaround

    loafinaround Initiate (0) Jul 16, 2011 New York

    totally agree... but any pilsner would fill that bill. It's just that these mass produced beers don't even taste like a real pilsner. They're off... like wonderbread is off. KWIM? It's just that everyone has it and has come to expect this is what beer (bread) should be.
    All the fancy shmancy beer stuff... that's all our fault (the craft beer consumers). Deeelicious! But not for most peoples' palates, undeniably.
     
  13. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society


    “totally agree... but any pilsner would fill that bill. It's just that these mass produced beers don't even taste like a real pilsner.”

    Do you have an example beer in mind when you state “real pilsner”? Why would you think that somebody who likes to drink a beer such as Bud or Bud Light would like that “real pilsner”?

    Cheers!
     
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  14. kelvarnsen

    kelvarnsen Pundit (944) Nov 30, 2011 Canada (ON)

    But my whole point was that taste doesn't even matter to most people, at least not taste in the way that you described. Oh yea and there was one point I forgot to add: reasonable price point. Why bother paying a couple of bucks more for a real pilsner when bud light does the job I described above for less money? If flavour isn't even a top 5 consideration for some people it would be damn near impossible to change them I think. It would be like finding people who take the bus to work and are ok with it because it meets their requirements of getting to work and trying to convince them that they need to be driving a Lexus.
     
  15. loafinaround

    loafinaround Initiate (0) Jul 16, 2011 New York

    ok, I'm revealing my german heritage now. hofbrauhaus, for example. I know, not exactly in pathmark... but it is the "bud" of my ethnic butcher shop ;-)
    You and I are actually in agreement. I think the flooding of mass produced beer altered peoples' taste so they now prefer the mass produced beer, because that's what beer is expected to taste like.
    People's tastes can change, though. You can see increasing # of Americans now preferring less processed foods in recent years. When I was a kid (70's), kraft mac and cheese and hamburger helper boxes were in EVERY kitchen. But admittedly, change is occurring very slowly.
     
  16. loafinaround

    loafinaround Initiate (0) Jul 16, 2011 New York

    That's why at best I think the craft beer market can reach 10-12%. It's expensive. very expensive. People will never EVER try to develop a taste for something outside their budget. that being said, my prior comments were really regarding beer drinkers whose budgets could allow for craft beer exploration.
    Another factor is time. Let's be real. This hobby (procuring an awesome brew) can often be time consuming. A parent w/ 3 little kids likely won't have that luxury.
     
  17. Samwhyz

    Samwhyz Initiate (0) Nov 4, 2012 Minnesota

    So they take money from these companies they are railing against, allow them to participate in events, and then declare historically family owned breweries like Schell are not craft brewers. Honestly it sounds like they're talking out of both sides of their mouths.
     
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  18. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society



    “I think the flooding of mass produced beer altered peoples' taste so they now prefer the mass produced beer, because that's what beer is expected to taste like.”

    Permit me to provide an alternative explanation. The vast majority of beer drinkers actually prefer to drink bland beers. Breweries like Anheuser-Busch and MillerCoors are actually producing product that people prefer to buy and drink.

    Think about the relatively recent development of Light beer. Miller introduced Miller Lite in the 70’s. They had all kinds of interesting advertisements using macho sports figures and the ubiquitous “Tastes Great – Less Filling” ads. Is the American public truly that gullible that they will consume whatever is presented to them or is the real explanation that the vast majority of beer drinkers actually prefer bland products and the BMC companies provide it to them? I believe that the mainstream beer market is a customer driven market and the mega-brewers are going to provide what the masses want to drink.

    By the way Anheuser-Busch sort of took their time to enter the Light beer market: Bud Light was introduced in 1982.

    Cheers!
     
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  19. loafinaround

    loafinaround Initiate (0) Jul 16, 2011 New York

    Good point. From my stout-biased perspective, I find all pilsners bland... (just can't say that aloud at my butcher shop!) But can see your point that hofbrauhaus and others might be too flavorful for others.
    Light beer I think was initially calorie driven. came around at the same time as aerobics and the jane fonda workout... but once again, the water-like qualities might appeal to some.
     
  20. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,071) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    But AB came out with both Michelob Light and what was originally called Anheuser-Busch Natural Light by the late 1970's IIRC. Contrary to it's current image, Natural Light was sold at above premium prices in the beginning, altho' both retailers and customers quickly dropped the long name and simply called it "Busch Light" (in markets where the then-regional Busch Bavarian was sold) or "Bud Light" despite AB's desires.

    Back then, many brewers were worried about cannibalizing their flagship brands with a "light" equivalent. It was one of Miller's big advantage with their beer called "Lite Beer from Miller" initially - it wasn't seen as by most as simply "Light Miller High Life". The fear of the other brewers was that they wouldn't necessarily win back their drinkers who switched to Lite Beer but simply move some of their flagship drinker over TO light beer. That attitude soon fell to the wayside for most companies by the early '80's - brew a light version of your beers or say goodbye.

    (Altho' it stuck around for most major imports- it took Van Munching/Heineken USA decades to bring out Heineken Light, which quickly soon outsold their Amstel Light).

    There was about a decade between the two. Miller acquired the "Lite" brand from Meister Brau in 1972 and Fonda's workout video dates from 1982, by which time Miller had climbed to the #2 brewer in the US (from #7) pretty much on the sales of "Lite" which would be the #3 brand in the US by '83.
     
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