Cicerones?

That's why we ...and many other beer bars provide descriptions on the menu. In our particular case we change out our lines SO often that it's pretty common for a staff member to come in with 10 or more new beers....and frequently beers that will be just a " one and done". The staff uses the menus to clue them in also. In fact the written descriptions are as much a valuable training tool for staff as they are intended for customers. I try to make the menu the primary guide to help narrow down the options. Sadly LOTS of people just refuse to read it and want the staff ...with a full bar of people waiting to be served....to go down the list of all 49 draft options. Generally folks who frequent BA will read the menu ...thank goodness for that.

 

as much as I'd love to throw myself into the meatgrinder, i just haven't bothered. CCIP/CCNP/CCDP and a pilot version of the CCIE SPO written exam.

Couple coworkers passed R/S Labs after 2 to 3 attempts.

 

And that attitude is why so many restaurants have waiters with little knowledge of their extensive wine menu and can't help customers choose a wine. That attitude is also the same as people that get pissy about Cicerone titles and then get butthurt that the bartender at a restaurant or pub doesn't know shit about 90% of the beers on tap.


Cicerone is fantastic for craft beer, and helps everyone have better service. How can a beeradvocate complain about that?

 

I took and passed the Certified Cicerone exam last Fall. The structure of the written exam was overall similar to the 2008 example exam. The biggest difference is that the beer style questions are all now scrambled, so they are not grouped by style group or country like they were on the 2008 exam. Maybe a third of the questions or so were about the same. Tough thing about the 2008 exam is there is no "answer key", so you have to research and be pretty confident of your answers on it to use it as a study tool. To pass the written part of the exam (at any time) you have to know your stuff and definitely have to come pretty close to memorizing the BJCP guidelines!

Hope this helps.

Rick

 

Titles don't drive sales, a good training program does, bro.

 

ummm "bro" that's exactly what the Cicerone program is!

 

Sorry I meant a staff training program at your bar/resto

 

Certified Cicerone... Thanks to my work. Probably wouldn't have done it for no reason. The certified beer server exam is easy if your into beer. The second level test is more in depth.

 

Have you looked at the Cicerone program? Do you not think it's good beer training? Do you think some corporate restaurant/chain has better training on beer?

 

I believe the Cicerone programs are worthwhile if that's the route you want to take. I am a beverage director and have 12 tap handles constantly rotating micros (I.e. the Bruery, BCBS, NG, CW, Mikkeller etc.) I can tell you that my staff knows the attributes of each beer on tap, it's provenance and the proper glass it goes in-bartenders and servers, not a cicerone or certified beer server among us. More than one way to achieve a desired result.

 

Hell, most beer bars don't really have any type of formal training. It's just info passed down via tasting and what not. While the BJCP and Cicerone programs different in their focus, they do share a core of beer knowledge, styles and sensory training. The real purpose is to teach the person how sensitive they are to off flavors (do you know if you're blind to Diacetyl? Never have a buttery beer?) and how to develope their vocabulary to not only describe off flavors but intensity, depth and descriptive ability of positive flavors. In the BJCP world the off flavors can be more important when judging homebrew to give positive feedback to the brewer of what is in the beer, at what stage of beer production it came from and how to eliminate it.

There will always be controversy over style guildelines and different events use different standards, GABF styles differ from BJCP et cetera...

One of the positives of studying for either program is the exposure to a much wider variety of the beers than one would normally consume. It's really a fun process and very educational.

 

True, more than one way. Your response about Cicerone being a title, and not driving sales like a training program, sounds like you don't think that Cicerone is a good program.

 

I am a Certified Cicerone Beer Server. I found the Beer Server exam to be easy, but I've been into homebrewing and reading about beer for years. However, I wish more bars and restaurants would encourage or require their servers to be certified. I've experienced too many servers that have only a bare minimum understanding of beer. Passing this exam would enable them to be more helpful to their customers.

 

Its amazing how often people who say "there is more than 1 way to do it" then criticize the other way to do it.

 

Here is a handy link to the proper usage of the various titles. You actually need to know this in order to pass the CBS, CC, and MC tests.
https://cicerone.org/content/titles-trademarks-proper-use

 

This is very true. I am convinced that there are flavors and off flavors that certain people can't perceive. It is a physiological phenominon - perhaps genentic. At times, it is an "ignorance is bliss" proposition, but not for brewers, beer judges and Cicerones. Sometimes I have a terrible time trying to convince a home-brewer that there is a flaw in their beer. For instance, some people have very low sensitivity to phenolics. Unfortunately, they can't taste it is present (inappropriately) in their beer.

 

Some people are flavor blind to certain compounds. Some can't taste diacetyl, others can't taste DMS.

Find your holes in the palalate and work around those.

 

I'm a certified beer drinker.

 

I get the solventy flavors from a lot of home brewing. I presume that this is the result of less than perfect temperature control during fermentation. After all they are not exactly using heat exchanged fermentation tanks. Yes, it may not be nail polish remover strong so most people barely recognize it, but its there. Still, I have a huge amount of respect for home brewing. I would like to begin dabbling in it sometime.

 

You two should hook up.