Cerveceria Costa Rica (Magic Hat) Suing West Sixth Brewing

No need to be rude. Last I checked, name calling is frowned upon here. We all have our opinions..none of which matter. We can argue all day like everyone else on here, but at least be civil.
As I mentioned way earlier in this discussion, ignorance on the part of the graphic people/brewery is no excuse in this multi-billion $$ industry.

 

I'm pretty sure Ben Self, the co-founder who's making all of the Facebook, blogs, Rwitter, Reddit, and every other social media tool posts, has enough money to hire lawyers and graphic artists. After working on Howard Dean's Internet team (yes, he worked for the former Governor of Vermont, where Magic Hat and #9 is located and widely available), he co-founded an Internet startup with 4 other Howard Dean workers and turned it into a $14-million/yr company and a few years later he took a golden parachute, after helping Obama's internet/social media campaign (and many other non-profits and for-profit entities). He's a social media genius and technology guru and he served as the DNC (Democratic National Committee) Technology Directory as part of their senior staff in the 2008 election cycle.

So while I think the guy (who also has an MIT degree) is super smart and has done great work for Democratic party, I also believe he can afford a lawyer or to hire a graphic designer. Heck, with the "friends in high places" connections he's established over the last few years, he probably knows dozens of politicians who also have law degrees (not that I'd trust a politician lawyer over a lawyer with a real job, but still... he's not broke).

I'd even wager that if he asked the company that originally designed his logo to change it, they'd probably even do it for free (or reduced rate) since the graphic artist company is technically who's to blame. I'd even wager that there's artists in the MH's Artifactory that would help design him a new logo, too. Heck, he can even do like some breweries and hold a contest to design a new logo and let him pick a winner. That way he'd get even more PR for the logo design competition and it would be free to him.

Regardless of whether MH's trademark claim is valid, look at their history. Both companies who they entered into disputes with were resolved without this much drama. The part about "taking all their revenue" was the opening salvo, just like in any dispute or bargaining, you always start at top and work your way to middle ground. Both other breweries that MH had disputes with resolved their issues and everyone is happily making beer.

 

Are you serious Clark? So, West Sixth needs to just accept this BS and spend money they don't have to change their marketing platform, canning facilities, swag, etc.? Absurd. Just bend over and take it with a smile? Ridiculous. Their response was completely justified. And, I find any approval of Magic Hat's actions to be frankly unbelieveable.

 

I'm not claiming ignorance. I'm pointing out that magic hat's #9 isn't that well known as you've implied. Again the labels look nothing alike and there is no reasonable chance that anyone would mistake a magic hat #9 with a west six brand beer.

While reasonable people can disagree this is pushing the limits of what is reasonable. You find me a person who bought a west six thinking it was a magic hat #9 and we can continue. Otherwise this is truly insanity.

 

A business owner shouldn't have to spend money that isn't coming from the business. Though you have made me dislike West Six more than I used to...hard to support anyone who works for a Democrat or Republican politician at the national level and when the beer isn't very good either...yikes.

Though the idea that it's good negotiation to open with absurd requests is just silly. If that's how a company wants to operate that's fine, but it's going to result when made public with a shit storm like we've seen with this. In a world with so many beer choices this is a clearly unquestionable justification to stop buying anything magic hat produces. And thankfully this information has been put out there so everyone knows enough to make that choice.

 

meh. Magic Hat was driven by fear and profit margin long before they were sold: http://beerpulse.com/2012/02/magic-hat-founder-on-beer-geeks-one-of-the-industry-problems/

 

Because of the power, money, and leverage of the the magic hat corporation.

 

Please can people stop saying there is no risk of confusion? I get it, you don't find them similar which in no way reflects any homer or small brewery bias, but these endless posts about how different they are is ridiculous. I've been involved in a number of trademark issues (never in litigation but a number in negotiation) and I've been forced to resolve much smaller differences than the ones between these. Search the web - there are thousands of case examples. Heck, medical errors are a huge issue even between products that have different formulations, different names, and different places of access (I work in pharma and I've had to rename some products too). Do you think medical professionals are less motivated to get it right than a Number 9 drinker?

I'm rooting for West 6th on this one and I signed their petition because I don't think it's good for the industry for big brewers to take small brewers to court. But to suggest West 6th is blindsided by a unreasonable lawsuit is just nuts.

 

I don't think this really supports your claim. To suggest that beer drinkers should choose a beer based on its quality and not how big the brewery is that makes it is not exactly blasphemy around here.

 

They already posted the designers website while pounding their chest on social media. So they did have a professional do it. And its not hard to alter stuff. I've done it many times before in this industry for one reason or another. How much marketing could they have? I don't know many small breweries that have any at all. If west sixth didn't want to deal with the pitfalls of owning a business then they should've found some other profession.

 

Oh no...Look what I found..Black Star Farms in Michigan uses a "star"

 

I bolded the part of importance.
This is the argument, summarized in two sentences, that all arguing against MH are using. Frankly, it is ridiculous to say, even if it is true, as it is just a bunch of made up crap. No one making above claim, and there seem to be many of you, especially from Kentucky and nearby areas (not surprisingly haha), has shown the logos to thousands of folks and asked their opinons. The "reasonable people" with "no reasonable chance of mistaking the two logos" is most likely one guy and his wife, or someone and three of his friends.

Trademark law is complex, except this one part: you must defend your trademark, or be unable to defend it in the future. This point, and the point in first paragraph, are all that is necessary to know that there certainly is enough of a dispute to justify needing a legal ruling to settle it.

 

I looked at the labels, I can't find anything remotely similar enough to warrant anyone being confused. I can't for the life of me understand your stance on this. We clearly have to agree to disagree as again I can't see it.

I can't comment on the medical world as what goes on there just from the outside makes you wonder what planet we are living on.

 

The Lexington Herald updated their story using the more similarly colored cans. While I think both sides have faults and made mistakes (and if I was into naming calling, I'd call both MH lawyers and Self similar names), I still think its silly for anyone to say there's no similarities between the two cans/logos. Regardless of who wins/loses, the only real losers in this battle is us, the craft beer drinkers for having to put up with the social media drama over the last week.

http://www.kentucky.com/2013/05/25/2653820/social-media-puts-west-sixth-magic.html

 

Actually, the claim Magic Hat is trying to make--or at least part of the claim--is that consumers will be confused as to the *source* of the product, which is one of the clues, to me, that Magic Hat is basically firing a trademark shotgun and hoping that in the broad spray of claims, that one of the will find the mark (pun intended).

 

Comparing a mark confusion in a consumer good like beer to trademark confusion in a field like pharma is a nonstarter. The industries are too disparate to draw any meaningful conclusions from one to the other.

All I can say is that yes, there are some similar elements between West Sixth's and Magic Hat's logos. Yes, those similar elements make it impossible to declare that there is "zero" risk of confusion. However there are enough distinguishing elements between the two cans (since this is the context in which consumers would be capable of confusing the two) to ensure that the likely end-consumer will not confuse the sources of the two products. Meaning there is *minimal* risk--certainly not enough to warrant the major costs West Sixth would have to incur to eliminate that minimal risk. Consumers will never see these two logos in the ridiculous context that Magic Hat is using for the basis of their claim (with the WS logo upside down), which means that the only way in which Magic Hat can reasonably argue for confusion is on the idea that the stylized "6" represents another product under Magic Hat's umbrella.

I honestly think the existence of the Amber Ale makes the confusion less likely, because you now have two brands with identical styles and different color palettes that suggest a brand family more strongly than West Sixth IPA and Magic Hat #9 suggest a brand family.

 

Yep... this. To everyone saying that you cannot see the similarities... really?? I live in Lexington and love the take off of craft beer around here. But the FIRST thing I said to my friends when West 6th launched was "uh oh, they are stealing Magic Hat #9's branding. Here comes a lawsuit!" And now it happened, shocking.

Yes, MH is now owned by a beverage conglomerate, and yes West 6th is the "little guy" in comparison, but if you don't think W6 is also trying to make money, (or if another start up around Lex infringed on the W6 branding that they wouldn't threaten legal action), then you are crazy.

Also, Country Boy for life.

 

Do you have any idea what you're talking about? Trademark law is not industry specific. For example, right now I'm negotiating with a software company.

You've posted repeatedly on what you see as the differences. Stop it.

 

Oh hey everyone, the forum arbiter is here. We can all stop sharing our opinions now. [rolls eyes]

It's really quite amazing that, over 500 posts worth of discussion, I managed to avoid having anyone act like a jerk towards me on this issue. Thanks for bucking the trend.

Also, I didn't say that trademark law is different depending on industry. The law is obviously the law, but the law itself allows for the differences in the projected consumer of the products on which a mark is being disputed. The level of acceptable difference between marks can vary from industry to industry, not because the law is different from industry to industry, but because confusion depends on perception, and perception can vary from consumer base to consumer base.

 

I would love it if Alan Newman was somehow able to wrestle Magic Hat away from that conglomerate. It seems like he's more content in selling bland shandy at the moment.