Upland Secret Barrel Society

Discussion in 'Great Lakes' started by bertram, Oct 16, 2013.

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  1. kiwifuz

    kiwifuz Devotee (364) Oct 27, 2005 Indiana

    How illegal can free beer be if a certain DLD hosting brewery that maybe burnt down last night (but didnt because they actually have all but 1 handle full of their own beer last night) give their investors a free pint for every visit, and free beer at their events both bottle and tap? I'd think that if it was actually illegal they would have been stopped years ago?
     
  2. Dontcounttoday

    Dontcounttoday Initiate (0) Apr 23, 2010 Illinois

    The investors you're talking about own stock in the company correct? I'm no lawyer but I'd guess that drinking some of what you own without paying is legal.
     
  3. kiwifuz

    kiwifuz Devotee (364) Oct 27, 2005 Indiana

    Very true. I guess if you want money to build your brewery make it an investor thing like it is instead of a faux society.... They could make it useful. I'd pay for something similar to what Floyds did if it was called that & had similar benefits.
     
  4. DaSolomon

    DaSolomon Initiate (0) Oct 12, 2011 New York

    The reason the membership doesn't include any beer is that it is illegal in Indiana to pre-sell beer or to sell discounted beer direct from the brewery.
     
  5. TallPaul07

    TallPaul07 Initiate (0) Sep 4, 2010 Indiana

    I didn't get so much as a fucking confirmation email. Initially it sounded great despite the fact that I wasn't getting any beer....but no confirmation email upon signing up? Just a "fuck you very much thanks for your money"...that's what really pissed me off.
     
  6. TheodorHerzl

    TheodorHerzl Initiate (0) Mar 30, 2007 Indiana


    Perhaps, but they shouldn't hide behind that. If that is the case they should have dropped the price significantly. This is a BS way to raise 125k.
     
    atoulouk, myersk27 and tinypyramids like this.
  7. DaSolomon

    DaSolomon Initiate (0) Oct 12, 2011 New York

    Not perhaps, haps! That is the reason they aren't offering any beer along with the membership; it is against the law which, I'm sure one can easily deduce, would cost the brewery a lot of money and would be counter productive to their ultimate goals. If you don't want the membership don't buy it. As someone pointed out, you vote with your dollars.
     
  8. jisom123

    jisom123 Initiate (0) Aug 21, 2008 Indiana

    I'm going to sign up. I know its a bad ROI. On a positive note, the email was well written, had some fun prose and had the best intentions. Its a gamble, and I hope it works. I'm an Upland fan.

    Excluding the event tickets and placard value; the price per bottle = ($250/8)+retail($25?+tax) = ~$58, right?
    If the minimum yearly bottle volume for "reserve only" is (8 bottles * 500 memberships) = >4000 bottles.

    Scenario #1 (Best case): Upland sells all 500 memberships and every single member takes their full allotment.
    Pro's: Profiteering is slightly reduced. Hording is slightly reduced. Good beer touches more lips. Upland expands production.
    Cons: Poor people aren't going to get any. "Do I pay for cable this month, or buy a bottle of beer."

    Scenario #2 (Worse case): Underwhelming membership interest and "No discount/Pre-sale law" leads to a Non-linear bottle allocation/distribution.
    Lets say that Upland Sells 94 memberships.
    70 of them take their base allotment of 8 bottles due to financial restrictions (that's only 580 of 4000+ bottles).
    15 members purchase 2x allotment (16*15=240 bottles)
    and lastly, 5 wealthy people (Beer futures commodities dealers) can purchase the remaining 3180 bottles between each other.
    Thats 632 bottles per profiteer @ $27.14 each.
    There's no way Upland will let someone buy 600 bottles. No way. To combat this Upland would need to withhold most of the beer and sell it at their shops.
    But, If "Secret beer" is sold at shops 3 weeks later for $26.75, no one will buy memberships next year.

    I don't want this to turn into a "Reserve Only (or wait 3 weeks and get it for half price) Society".
    Find a loop-hole for the pre-sale laws?
     
    kengetty likes this.
  9. macrosmatic

    macrosmatic Pooh-Bah (2,646) Mar 9, 2006 Florida
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Do you have any references to back this up other than Upland's own email? As a resident of Indiana for eight years, I had never heard of such a thing. And a quick read of the statutes didn't yield me anything on point that I could find.
     
  10. pest

    pest Savant (1,027) Sep 2, 2007 Ohio
    Trader

    Dead to me. This is literally offensive/insulting, shame they make some good sours too. If law prevents them from doing otherwise, then why the lofty $250... Clearly it's a f you pay me money grab, not even a vague X number of society events....
     
  11. DaSolomon

    DaSolomon Initiate (0) Oct 12, 2011 New York

    I didn't even know Upland sent out an email, I am not signed up for them nor did I reserve a membership....yet?
     
  12. tinypyramids

    tinypyramids Pundit (897) Jul 19, 2012 Illinois


    lol
     
    Grohnke likes this.
  13. 4DAloveofSTOUT

    4DAloveofSTOUT Grand Pooh-Bah (3,730) Nov 28, 2008 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    I hope they dont...but it sounds like they can keep the lottery honest.
     
  14. myersk27

    myersk27 Initiate (0) Oct 21, 2011 Indiana


    please pass along the specific statute that says this....i really want to see it.
    i did the same thing and couldn't find anything either. until I actually see it, I'm just gonna believe they are hiding behind a made up law.....and I really don't want to believe that. If it's truly illegal, fine, but then charge people $1 for their bottles....or charge $50 for the membership.....
     
    TheodorHerzl likes this.
  15. jampics2

    jampics2 Pooh-Bah (2,340) Dec 19, 2008 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader


    They could have made the Secret Barrel Society Certificate worth $.01 in preferred stock, then everyone would technically own penny stock in the company.
     
  16. robboyd

    robboyd Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2011 Indiana

    Honestly guys, I've got another offer I'd like you to consider before buying Upland's Society membership. You give me $250 and then I kick you in the crotch.

    At least the pain of this purchase will dissipate faster than your barrel society membership.
     
    fredmugs and myersk27 like this.
  17. ChiefColdBeer

    ChiefColdBeer Initiate (0) Mar 18, 2011 Florida

    If they get the funds and expand their sour program then it makes sense they will produce more sour beers for sale. If the society is limited at 500 people and they produce more than 500 bottles of each sour then that dilutes the value of the society. Not only are you giving them $250 bucks to expand their program but then you get the chance to buy eight more bottles, let say at $20 bucks apiece. So they raise 125K with the society and another 80K with the future purchases that nets them $205K for 4000 bottles of beer that $51.25 per bottle. That's what your going to end up paying. If they are that good then go for it. Since the whole concept is to make more sours then there should be more availability, even to those not in the society.
    Sorry but this was ill conceived and poorly executed. If you wanted money to expand then just ask for it. Plain and simple. Offer those initial folks a lifetime exclusivity as they are your investors and should get something in return for it beyond the right to give you more money in the future. Maybe you didn't want to give kickstarter their cut. That's fine, but give it to your investors cause that's whats your asking for. Investors without having to pay loan interest. You cant get that deal from a bank, kickstarter or other legitimate investors so conceive a way to short change the folks who support you the most. Poor way to treat your fan base. P.T. Barnum fundraising at its finest.
     
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  18. Lansman

    Lansman Savant (1,104) Mar 19, 2011 Missouri
    Trader

    This is the response I received from Caleb upon asking that same question:

    ...when we checked out establishing the program, we saw enough gray area in the books that the practice of pre-selling beer could be against Indiana code. To set something up in a way that could be potentially illegal, or even misinterpreted as illegal, could place our entire business in jeopardy. I even remember some jawing about sales tax issues and point of purchase.

    We truly feel there is value in being able to have guaranteed access to purchase our sour ales, as well as be a part of helping fund a small business with organic grassroots consumer directed efforts. We are entirely sincere and genuine in our efforts to create a group that gets as much out of the membership fee as much as it gets back in beneficial value.

    We appreciate your comments, and are happy to answer any other questions you may have.

    Cheers,
    Caleb
     
  19. ballardbrewer

    ballardbrewer Initiate (0) Feb 21, 2009 Indiana

    I don't get how now their will now be some new beers that will only be available to members only. So they either are going to cut one or more of their public releases and make it members only. Or throw together some non sour beer and maybe barrel age it and hope it is ready by the end of 2014 then release it to members. Or who knows they could have some non fruited lambic ready that they could put together some small batches for members, and once again hope it is ready by end of year.
     
  20. yeahnatenelson

    yeahnatenelson Initiate (0) Feb 8, 2010 Illinois

    If that were an option you'd think they would be able to make a new batch of Persimmon in the year-and-a-half since the last batch was supposed to be ready.
     
    Shagtastic likes this.
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