Märican Biere Bought and Drunk...

Discussion in 'Germany' started by Gutes_Bier, Jan 2, 2014.

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  1. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Another article about the anti-craft backlash: http://mixology.eu/drinks/schnauze-voll-von-craft-beer/

    Particularly interesting to me was the section on "Craft ist Vielfalt" (Craft Is Variety):

    Außerdem kann man eines nicht oft genug betonen: Craft Beer ist nicht nur das bis zum Bitterkollaps gehopfte IPA, nicht nur das gaumenzerrende Extrem-Geuze. Ein schlankes Lager, mit erfrischender Hopfennote, aus bewusst gewählten Zutaten handwerklich hergestellt – das ist auch Craft. Selbst die irrsten Hopfennarren wissen ein frisches, leichtes Bier an heißen Tagen zu schätzen.

    Offenbar ist es der kreativen Bierszene bisher noch nicht gelungen, dies ausreichend in den Vordergrund zu stellen. Wenn der Eindruck entsteht, die Craft-Beer-Szene hätte solche Biere nicht zu bieten, können wir auch gleich einpacken. Schließlich ist es das gesteckte Ziel, alles aus Bier herauszuholen, und dazu gehört das stärkste Imperial Stout ebenso wie das trinkbarste Helle.
     
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  2. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I'm not so sure about the validity in that statement -- look around BA just a little and see how many members boast about the latest DIPA as their "session" beer.
     
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  3. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Precisely. And the next sentence is key: "Apparently the creative beer scene has not yet succeeded in making this clear/placing this in the foreground."

    No, they haven't. Instead you hear more about how those very light beers could do with a good ol' dose of citrusy/fruity hops to make them "more interesting."
     
  4. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Yes, but doesn't that sort of negate the first statement? The "crazy hop fools" are driven by the craft/creative scene -- the scene that tells them...
    It's all back to the slap-you-in-the-face, hit you over the head, slam your palate way of "creativity" in order to be interesting. Subtlety and tradition are becoming casualties of the faux creativity of the craft beer "evolution."

    Though I do see some *****s in the armor in some areas, it's up to us to nurture that seed! Who's with me?! :slight_smile:
     
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  5. -N8

    -N8 Initiate (0) Feb 7, 2014 Germany

    AYE!!!


    [​IMG]
     
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  6. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I don't know that Bill would be on our side for this one... :grinning::stuck_out_tongue:

    ('course, he probably would defend our right to appreciate diversity!)
     
  7. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah

    I think that one of the effects of craft beer's popularity is an increasing degree of polarization in the preferences of different groups of consumers, not complete polarization, but an increasing degree of it. Individual consumers, and groups of consumers, will champion those beers and those styles which appeal to them, and will ignore others. It wont be an equal opportunity market where consumers will like all things or even appreciate all things beer. Some might want to look at this process as a battle for supremacy, of having their preferences held up as definitive and authoritative, whilst belittling those of others or simply ignoring them (this might lead to people coming up with a condescending interpretation /explanation for why an individual or group of individuals might enjoy a particular type of beer, whilst at the same time coming up with a more flattering and self-serving explanation for preferences which they themselves just so happen to have).

    I view it differently. The way I see it it's up to the consumer to vote with their wallet, and to connect with others who share their preferences to make sure that beers/styles and breweries that cater to their preferences are rewarded for doing so, which hopefully leads to those options remaining available and expanding in the market. At the same time I do not believe in a perfect balance as far as availability or equal representation of the type of beers I enjoy compared to those that other people enjoy in the market place, I do not believe that the market naturally works for my personal benefit to the same degree to those of others. At the end of the day, I'm at the mercy of larger processes and movements at work which I as an individual cannot and wont be able to control (i.e my own purchases wont be able to prop up a brewery or a particular beer unless there's a greater number of consumers out there doing the same). I do acknowledge however that the number of beers available to me that I enjoy has expanded a great deal in the last few years (albeit in a different country with a different set of circumstances) and I do not see this situation changing for the worse in the near future at least, if anything I see it improving.

    It helps that I appreciate both the newer styles of beer coming out of the US and being replicated here in Sweden, as well as appreciating classic (predominantly lager) styles of beer, and it helps that Sweden has a mainstream style of beer which I happen to enjoy. I thus do not share the more pessimistic outlook seemingly held by others in this thread and elsewhere. I also feel as though the quick pace with which the craft beer market is developing gives plenty of reason to be optimistic that beers and styles of beer that you enjoy will be made available in the near future if they're not already available.
     
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  8. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Below is a point one of the commenters on the Mixology piece made:

    "Und Bier ist Heimat, sowieso. Wer zum Beispiel aus Bochum ist, der wird überall erzählen, wie gut das Bochumer Bier ist und freut sich wie ein kleiner Junge, wenn er in Berlin ein Fiege Pils trinken kann. Denn mit Fiege hat er damals schon den Aufstieg der B-Jugend gefeiert. Das wird Herr Koch nie verstehen, denn seine Bierheimat ist Bud light, auch wenn er heute besseres Bier trinkt."

    For better or worse (given recent declines in quality as a result of the conglomertes), Germany is and remains a place where beer is intimately tied into a sense of place, of identity. I completely agree with his assessment of people like Greg Koch being unable to understand this. Perhaps the same can be said of places like Sweden, Italy, Denmark, Japan, etc.: their local identity and sense of place was never so intimately tied to beer, so the "craft" wave was welcomed against this blank slate with open arms. However, anyone who expects the same to happen in Germany without a degree of the type of backlash we are beginning to see is overly optimistic as best, and wholly foolish at worst.
     
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  9. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah

    I think that's a valid point, although I'm a bit confused as to what your take on the situation is, whether you believe that American-style craft beer will come to dominate the German beer market despite the existence of strong local/regional loyalties to certain breweries, or if you think that craft beer (defined here as modern US styles) will at most become a niche segment in a market still dominated by domestic breweries and domestic styles of beer. I believe your position to be the latter (and I am of the same belief), in which case I would simply question whether anyone believes the former, or if we're all on the same page pretty much. Does anyone believe for example that AALs will cease to make up the majority of beer sales in the US? I for one do not, I forsee a decrease in sales which will eventually level off and provide a good chunk of volume for craft beer, but craft beer wont replace AALs. I don't believe in a replacement of mainstream beer in exchange for something bolder in flavor. The choice as I see it is between stability or a continued drive towards lightness, a process which American brewers wont be able to continue much further, but which there is still room for among the large European brewers.
     
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  10. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    My take on the situation is that U.S.-style "craft" beers will become a niche segment in Germany, and that -- as in the U.S. -- the conglomerates will move to cash in on the popularity of these beers by filling a large part of that niche with "crafty" alternatives (including "amped up" versions of the Fernsehbiere). In other words, you're going to see a lot more hops in a lot more German beers in the future. And I have no doubt that many will applaud such a development, to the point of declaring almost that U.S.-style "craft" has somehow "won." My fear is that the losers in this silly battle will be the subtle, traditional styles that are also currently in decline -- you know, the beers that have been craft (i.e. crafted by local artisans based on tradition and local culture) for hundreds and sometimes thousands of years. There are signs that styles like Berliner Weisse and Gose are seeing a revival. But what about the traditional Dunkles, Helles, and farmhouse-style Kellerbiere that continue to die out as the conglomerates march on (riding the wave of more hops)? Maybe the "craft" movement will get people thinking enough about price to agree to pay more for these such beers and to actively seek them out. But I think the economic factors go much deeper than just consumer spending patterns (it's just as much about EU regulations and global economic forces). So I, for one, certainly hope that cooler heads -- and not hop heads -- will prevail. We will see....
     
    #510 herrburgess, Oct 17, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2014
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  11. mmmbirra

    mmmbirra Pundit (877) Apr 19, 2009 Italy

    I'd go with the latter as well. For the same reason that Italy will never be a place to find a great culinary diversity: people here are raised with local/regional recipes and very specific concrete ideas of what food is/should be. No Italian would ever readily admit that they enjoy French cheese or French wine as much or more than Italian cheese or Italian wine.
    In fact, many, if not most, Italians claim to dislike French food, a claim which is not all that dissimilar to some Germans' knee-jerk reaction against Belgian beer.
    The point is, these gastronomical tendencies in European nations are not just tendencies but are large parts of their cultures and to a certain extent define the people and the place. This isn't likely to change any time soon.
    The AAL situation in the US is, to me, a bit of a different beast. US culture is all about change and breaking tradition. New World vs. Old World.
     
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  12. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah

    Here is where the polarization comes into play as I see it. The consumers who champion and enjoy the new American styles wont be the exact same people who will champion and continue to enjoy, or discover for the first time, the domestic specialties. I think both types of consumer will exist or make themselves known, in what will be a more fragmented market where domestic specialties will exist alongside the newer specialties. The success of the domestic specialties will depend on the work of people who champion them and spread the word about them through various channels, as well as individual consumers having an interest in these styles. Whether the number of consumers that champion the regional specialties will be the same as today, increase in numbers, or become fewer, is difficult to say of course. But the way I see it the success or failure of the two types of markets is not necessarily interconnected. A person who dislikes the mainstream beers or is dissatisfied with them or is looking for more variety and at the same time greatly enjoys the new styles, is that person likely to enjoy the regional specialties? Perhaps, perhaps not. I think what craft beer is ultimately an attestament to is the differing taste preferences of consumers and that those taste preferences aren't equally distributed. At the same time, it is obvious to me that there exists in every population those that enjoy the mainstream beers, people that enjoy the modern styles and people that enjoy higher quality renditions of classical styles. I think this is true of Germany also and that it will provide room for those traditional specialties, although the size of each market is an unknown at this stage.
     
  13. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Yours is a very good assessment. I guess my American idealism about groups growing together blinds me sometimes.
     
  14. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    “My take on the situation is that U.S.-style "craft" beers will become a niche segment in Germany, and that -- as in the U.S. -- the conglomerates will move to cash in on the popularity of these beers by filling a large part of that niche with "crafty" alternatives (including "amped up" versions of the Fernsehbiere). In other words, you're going to see a lot more hops in a lot more German beers in the future. And I have no doubt that many will applaud such a development, to the point of declaring almost that U.S.-style "craft" has somehow "won."

    The above premise suggests that increasing the hopping level in German brewed beers is motivated by the craft beer movement.

    Permit me to suggest a different ‘model’ within the context of Private Landbraueri Schönramn where they have already decided to reverse the present trend in Germany to lighten the use of hops. In my opinion, Private Landbraueri Schönram is brewing German beers as they were brewed only a few decades ago. I am uncertain whether the brewing of a German beer of circa 1980 is considered a “historical beer” but if it is then Eric Toft is brewing ‘old school’ German beers:

    “Toft,…Since he has taken over as brewmaster at Private Landbraueri Schönram in 1998 he has gradually made the recipes his own, increasing hopping rates 10 to 15 percent on average, going against a trend in Germany. Brewery sales have more than doubled, again bucking a national trend.

    Schönramer Pils, brewed with lower alpha aroma hops throughput, won medals at the European Beer Star competition in 2009, 2010, and 2011, and the World Beer Cup in 2012.”

    Cheers!
     
  15. -N8

    -N8 Initiate (0) Feb 7, 2014 Germany

    This one is a winner - very close to the best German offerings in this style that I really enjoy. Hard to imagine that it comes from a little brewery in Albuquerque, NM, although that little brewery has some world class beers thx to the hyper brewing OCD of Jeff Erway & his team.

    La Cumbre knows the average American beer drinker needs simple pouring instructions mit pitchurs:

    [​IMG]

    La Cumbre's "a Slice of Hefen"

    [​IMG]
     
  16. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Beautiful photographs as always!

    Cheers to Nate!!
     
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  17. -N8

    -N8 Initiate (0) Feb 7, 2014 Germany

    Cheers - you German bier fans should seek this one out and give it a try.
     
  18. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,839) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    Wasn't that my whole premise of the "Went to Italy, had epiphany on German beer" post? Yet to the German quote you failed to translate here... basically, it says wow... how the beer you drank in your formative years makes you love it over all others, and blinds you to all else. So... Germany will have a more tortuous path out of the Brauereiausterben because of the weight of tradition and provinciality. It just makes it a more interesting game to watch.
     
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  19. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    I disagree with your assessment of the role of tradition and provinciality in German brewing. I agree with the commenter, who says that this type of local brand loyalty isn't going away...and may actually form a part of the type of backlash you are seeing around "craft" beer (and perhaps more importantly, attitudes and "culture") as it encroaches into these traditional/provincial areas. what we need is for these places, too, to fight against the price-dumping places. FWIW, I still see the local brand loyalty among my German in-laws...although their crates of Wolters now occupy cellar space beside crates of Oettinger.
     
  20. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,175) Nov 3, 2005 California

    Just cracked a Josephsbräu Oktoberfest brewed at Gordon Biersch in San Jose CA. I must say, pretty decent brew, tastes correctly aged (best by 2/22/2015), amber hue is enticing, nice caramel malt and noble hop aroma and can't beat the price. Two thumbs up, a well brewed beer (completely to style) by any standard.
     
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