Be honest, at what point do breweries get "too big" and suspect?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by 31Sam13, Mar 10, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. azorie

    azorie Pooh-Bah (2,409) Mar 18, 2006 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    only when the beer suffers, IMHO. that does not mean I do not dislike SN and SA ideas of what is popular beer. Both have lost sales from me over beer that intro and then drop, that always burns me up. Sure a pilot brew back at the home office, its a failed experiment I can dig that. but once you start selling tumbler (nation wide) and then drop it, SN lost sells from me, not bought I bet over 10 cases of beer from them since then. They will never notice or even care.....

    lol had to vent....
     
  2. StartedwithSAM

    StartedwithSAM Initiate (0) Feb 17, 2015 Virginia

    Exactly, to me that is when a company becomes a "sellout".
     
    Greywulfken likes this.
  3. Beegee305

    Beegee305 Initiate (0) Mar 25, 2015 Florida

    When every beer you make has a ABV of 6% or lower.

    Its embarassing really
     
  4. smogfood

    smogfood Initiate (0) Dec 10, 2010 Wisconsin

    I've never seen a beer's price decline unless it's selling out old stock.
     
  5. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,058) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Good point. Me neither. Granted, my post was entirely hypothetical, economies of scale takes place in the beer world. If a small brewery replicated Bud, they'd probably have to charge more for it than AB.
     
  6. rgordon

    rgordon Pooh-Bah (2,677) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Being able to describe business dynamics cogently is either dangerous or very simple. People want to make money, pure and simple. Others make money because of the love for what they do. When the two intersect, opinions rise like piranha, frenzied and often thoughtless.
     
    TMoney2591, drtth and Alexmc2 like this.
  7. Prince_Casual

    Prince_Casual Savant (1,212) Nov 3, 2012 District of Columbia
    Trader

    We've been trying to sell out for years, no one's buying!
    -Jerry Garcia
     
  8. Alexmc2

    Alexmc2 Pundit (784) Jul 29, 2006 New Hampshire

    The goal of management at any firm should be shareholder wealth maximization. Not really sure why that concept gets so much hate. Most craft brewers are looking to increase their profits while doing something they love. These aren't monks brewing for a higher purpose.
     
  9. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,058) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Not even the monks are brewing for a higher purpose.
     
  10. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,058) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    On second thought, did @Sixpoint 's price per oz lower when they revamped? I don't recall.
    In general, I've seen prices lower with packaging changes, but it's usually a minor incident unlike the more sweeping Sixpoint situation (assuming I'm remembering correctly).
     
  11. smogfood

    smogfood Initiate (0) Dec 10, 2010 Wisconsin

    I wouldn't know about Sixpoint. I've never seen it in my area, but I have recently seen price increases on a few local beers. That's never a fun thing to see.
     
  12. Fox82791

    Fox82791 Initiate (0) Jun 20, 2014 New York

    Yes, who wants sub-par to bad quality beer, regardless of how cheap it is?
     
    StartedwithSAM likes this.
  13. Immortale25

    Immortale25 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,549) May 13, 2011 North Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    My idea of when a brewery sells out is somewhat selfish but here goes:

    When the majority of employees who helped build, shape and define the brewery with their hard work, personalities and passion have been replaced by new employees for whatever reason. Put simply, when the turnover rate becomes such that you don't recognize anyone at the brewery five years down the road besides the owner and a couple other higher-ups. It's not that the brewery has "sold out" per say, but rather has transformed into a different brewery due to its rapid growth. People leave jobs for many different reasons. Some positive, some negative. And it's selfish and unrealistic of me to expect a brewery to keep the majority of their employees from the beginning with minimal turnover but, if the brewery is being run the way it should be, why wouldn't everyone want to stay there until they retire? I'm probably just naive.
     
  14. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,058) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    I'm willing to bet that you are constantly assessing value with most of the things you buy.
    Taking your idea to the other extreme, how many of us want better beer at $1.50 an oz?
     
    keithmurray likes this.
  15. Urk1127

    Urk1127 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,728) Jul 2, 2014 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    IMO it shouldn't matter how big a brewery gets to be considered a sell out, to me, it is to sell the company you love for a price to the huge brewers ex; inbev, AB. But then again, if they get big and want to sell, or just not into it anymore whatever, I'm sure they'd have their reasons besides just money unless they are looking to retire early. If I were an employee at such a place, and lost my job because of this though regardless of reasoning of course it would be upsetting, but it is what it is. If I was an owner selling, I personally would profit share amongst the employees about to lose their job because of myself. There are some brewers I wish were bigger so I could find their beers more readily available. (Sixpoint, Carton, Sly Fox). Brewery growth is definitely a good thing not asking certain brewers to sell out haha. But growth should not be suspect at all. After all, that would at least be my goal, to grow and get my beer out there. But not sell the company. Just the beer :grinning:
     
    #35 Urk1127, Mar 28, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2015
  16. Fox82791

    Fox82791 Initiate (0) Jun 20, 2014 New York

    Quality is really the only factor to me, if it's a phenomenal beer I'll probably pay that high $ per ounce. If the quality isn't very good I won't purchase regardless of price. Too many great options out there
     
  17. FutureJack

    FutureJack Initiate (0) Oct 30, 2007 California

    You want SN to keep releasing large quantities of a beer that people aren't buying?
     
  18. RBassSFHOPit2ME

    RBassSFHOPit2ME Initiate (0) Mar 1, 2009 California
    Deactivated

    What's a Pliney?
     
  19. FutureJack

    FutureJack Initiate (0) Oct 30, 2007 California

    Do you want to stay at your job until you retire?
     
    pinkgrenade likes this.
  20. JrGtr

    JrGtr Pooh-Bah (1,689) Apr 13, 2006 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Society

    So someone should be happy being an assistant brewer, or bottle washer their whole life because you like the beer as it is now?
    If that assistant brewer gets an opportunity to become head brewer somewhere else, or the bottle washer can move up someplace, why should they not take it? They are trying to do best for themselves and their families too.
    If the head brewer has an opportunity to move elsewhere, to be head brewer or start their own place, moving that assistant brewer to head brewer, is that OK, or will you still hate on them for it.
    As long as the turnover is such that enough people are there to train the new hires right, to brew the beer as it has been, I don't see why turnover is such a bad thing. It can even be good, if those new people are bringing their own ideas to put alongside the tried and true ones.

    To answer the question posed by the OP, I don't think there is one point that a brewer is too big, as long as the quality and consistency has been maintained. I understand about BBC (Sam Adams) becoming suspect, but I don't think it necessarily has to do with the size per se. I think it's the fact they spread themselves over too wide a portfolio. There was a commercial not long ago asking how many beers they brew, and the answer is something like 60. IMO that's just too durn many. A core of a dozen or so, with another dozen or so in rotation, plus perhaps the barrel room series and Utopias should be plenty. Retire beers that are not selling, replace with something else. SA Boston Lager (fresh) is to me still a great beer, though it's a style that many of us here on BA pass on, not being the latest and greatest hop bomb or barrel aged motor oil (search your feelings; you know it to be true) and it is still one of the gateways for many people into craft beer.
    IMO when the desire for money outweighs the desire to make great beer (and yes, the two are interconnected: a brewery can make the best beer ever, but if they aren't making money, covering expenses and such, they will still be out of business) such that the quality of the beer suffers because of that desire for money, is when the brewery becomes suspect. And this doesn't need to be a big brewery, nanos can be affected just as easily, difference being scale. And at the other end, just being big doesn't mean they sold out and are suspect, one could be as big as you want and still be making great beer.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.