Is Stone Brewing becoming the next Ballast Point?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by jageraholic, Jun 9, 2017.

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  1. breadwinner

    breadwinner Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2014 California

    I get what you're saying, OP. I'm not sure the BP analogy quite works, but I've definitely sensed a shift in Stone's focus. As others have said, they must feel that's what their customers want. As for me, though, it's done the opposite -- I rarely buy Stone now, as I have little interest in the types of beers they're making (generalizing, of course). But, again, I may very well not be the "typical" consumer, who does like these things.

    It's definitely a competitive game, and breweries have to carefully weigh a balance between doing something new/trendy and not alienating/losing customers. Breweries won't get 2nd and 3rd chances when the competition is this stiff. I won't bother going back to Stone, for example, when I know my personal favorites are still cranking out the jams.

    Bottom line, as ever, we vote with our wallets. The companies whose beers I enjoy and whom I respect will continue to get my money. Selfishly, I hope other people feel the same as I do, so that we have lots of fresh, pungent IPAs, expertly crafted lagers, etc., and less fruit and flavor-infused beer:slight_smile: But, I suppose only time will tell what the broader market wants.
     
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  2. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,071) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    2015, the year Constellation bought Ballast Point, it was estimated they were going to end the year at 290-300,000 bbl. but only hit 277k.

    Stone brewed 328,000 bbl that year.

    Ballast Point had been experience some rapid growth at the time. In 2011, their barrelage was only 29,000.
     
  3. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Easier and less expensive to simply look at your own sales data then visit a few bottle shops and see what's on the shelves. :wink:
     
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  4. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,058) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    When Stone revealed their 2017 releases back at the start of the year, their planned lineup consisted entirely of 22 IPAs, 1 "pale ale", 3 stouts, and whatever the Spotlight beer was going to be. 4 beers were with fruit and 4 were with coffee.

    Yeah - from my point of view, many of the reliable and well-established "craft" breweries are (desperately?) changing their lineup to reflect the changing market. Barley wines and English pales are getting replaced by Radlers and IPAs with berries. It's not a trend I'm enjoying. On the other hand, lagers seem to be popping up more as well. Thank goodness for Bell's who make beer that I really enjoy and are behaving as if they are slightly more impervious to the winds of change. My comment about Stone's portfolio also reveals that IPAs (without extra additives) are just becoming more and more dominant. One seasonal I've always really looked forward to was Smuttynose Hayseed. This summer, they have a new IPA as the summer seasonal instead. Hayseed wasn't like anything else in the market... I'm not even going to try that new summer IPA.
     
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  5. jageraholic

    jageraholic Maven (1,378) Sep 16, 2009 Massachusetts
    Trader

    Oh, i get it. These are businesses and need to make money. It's just happening to one I always preferred
     
  6. rather

    rather Initiate (0) May 31, 2013 California

    They should bring it back as little bastard or something, it was easily my favorite session beer
     
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  7. NotAlcoholicJustAHobby

    NotAlcoholicJustAHobby Initiate (0) Jun 13, 2015 Vermont

    Nobody likes to see their favorite beer discontinued. Stone is simply trying to appeal to a different segment of the beer drinking population than they have in the past. It's adapt or die in this marketplace.
     
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  8. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Interesting how so many keep talking about these changes being "gimmicks." A gimmick is something that attracts attention but adds little or no value to the product. When fruit flavors in beer sell and continue to sell then it is what the customers want. So then it's not a gimmick any longer, if it ever was in the first place.

    It also would be interesting to know how many posting in this thread have resisted the lure of fruity or other new hop IPAs that come from using new hops (such as Mosaic or Simcoe) and still stick with drinking only IPAs that rely on the three C hops (e.g. Anchor Liberty Ale uses only Cascade, IIRC) that used to be pretty much the only option for brewers to use.
     
  9. jageraholic

    jageraholic Maven (1,378) Sep 16, 2009 Massachusetts
    Trader

    I vote with my wallet but unfortunately one vote doesn't win an election. But I bought two 6 packs of Enjoy by IPA and a 6 pack of Ruination 2.0 this week. I also buy Arrogant Bastard fairly regularly and Wussie whenever I can find it fresh.
     
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  10. jageraholic

    jageraholic Maven (1,378) Sep 16, 2009 Massachusetts
    Trader

    They are doing that in Germany.
     
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  11. cjgiant

    cjgiant Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,560) Jul 13, 2013 District of Columbia
    Pooh-Bah Society

    I'd agree with this in a general sense, though not specifically to the OP's fruit-driven premise. As with anything, the smaller, local places can be more nimble, adjusting to their customers (who are limited) tastes.

    Stone has trouble doing this because their customers are wide and varied, in general and definitely relatively. Expounding: it takes a lot more core sales (in an absolute sense) for Stone to justify/pay for their experiments than a local place.

    If the market is becoming either "more fruity" or is simply becoming more "new is what I want to buy" (which fruity seems to be a component, fad or not yet to be determined, to me, @drtth), Stone and other mid-level breweries are going to have some issues to overcome.

    Edit: was gonna ask where Lime-a-Rita fits in the fad/not good beer/not argument :wink:
     
  12. jageraholic

    jageraholic Maven (1,378) Sep 16, 2009 Massachusetts
    Trader

    It fits in Not beer
     
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  13. breadwinner

    breadwinner Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2014 California

    Well done, indeed -- hopefully there's a lot of other folks like you, as I know I'd prefer the stuff you bought to fruit-infused IPAs and the like.
     
  14. breadwinner

    breadwinner Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2014 California

    Well, I think that's a touch to be determined. Do Stone's sales improve because of their willingness to do more fruit-oriented beers? Do other breweries? It seems a bit early to say.
     
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  15. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Lime-a-Rita predates most of the recent changes and but it is really a low ABV Margarita without the problems created by having multiple Margaritas made with Tequila.
     
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  16. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Well we don't have access to the statistics, but a change to a successful business strategy is usually motivated by a market driven forces. But let's also turn your question around, in a company that recently had to lay of sizeable number of long time employees, what other motivation for changing a portolio of offerings fits the observation made by the OP and confirmed by others, both with the Stone portfolio and that in other of the long term successful breweries, e.g., Victory, Troeg's to name a few locals? (E.g., Trogs recently replaced a Maibock in their seasonal release line up with a new IPA that uses Hibiscus flowers in brewing.)
     
  17. cjgiant

    cjgiant Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,560) Jul 13, 2013 District of Columbia
    Pooh-Bah Society

    But the main reason for having multiple real margaritas...

    :wink:

    P.S. I hope you're not equating a nicely made margarita with said aforementioned malt beverage :astonished:
     
  18. rgordon

    rgordon Pooh-Bah (2,677) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Just minutes ago I was sitting here thinking (mischievously) that Bud Light Lime was ahead of its time, a forerunner that presaged the brewing future......
     
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  19. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Actually I am equating them. I've had both well made Margaritas and the Lime-a-Rita and the only real major difference between them is that of the flavor profile of the alcoholic beverage in the cocktail and it's ABV. So no subtle Tequila flavor but lots of flavors from the cocktail mix. So it's at least as good as a many pre-mixed bottled Margaritas except the subtle flavors of the Tequila are missing (but same is true of the difference between using a TopShelf Tequila and a less expensive brand). So I'd call it a poor man's Margarita that doesn't require any bartender skills.
     
    #39 drtth, Jun 9, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
  20. cjgiant

    cjgiant Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,560) Jul 13, 2013 District of Columbia
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Haha-now I know where we disagree on margaritas. But we should let this thread get back to the original intent (sorry for derailing it).
     
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