So, how's Beer Trading going?

I am on the side of NO replies on ISO:FT posts. 99% of the threadshitting is not helpful. Most of it is to either dictate their own value of beers or to just try to be funny and get the most likes.

 

Both stickies are long overdue.

I'm definitely in favor of bringing replies back for a variety of reasons. (I think threadshitting to the point of hurting a trade is extremely overblown, replies offer lots of great info, replies make the forums a lot more interesting and fun, educational for noobs, cuts down on ridiculous ISO/FT offers)

I really still would like to see ISO/FT mods. I realize you guys are hesitant about mods, but that is one forum that would really benefit from it.

If you can't/won't do mods though, I'd propose a couple of other solutions for bringing ISO/FT comments back:

- No replies to ISO/FT's until you have 6-12 months on the site, or maybe 100 forum posts, or something along those lines.

- Some sort of "3 strikes" threadshitting policy. It's generally the same people who threadshit over and over - if people can't be responsible, then take the ability to reply in ISO/FT away from them. No need to harm everybody else for the errors of a few.

 

Again... nuke the trading forums.

 

You guys realize there were trading mods in place before right?

 

Gotcha.
If you're not willing to give moderating ability to others though and you don't wanna deal with the headache of the trade forums, you might as well leave it as no reply then.

 

Interesting from a guy openly selling beer on his profile and listing a trade history.

 

Just because something could happen doesn't mean it will or it should. So everyone who has a passing interest at the plausibility of a particular thread should just BM the person who started the thread? You don't think they're just going to say "its a great offer, you should take it!!". Or should people just start a thread saying "Hey guys, Is this trade fair or is it complete bullshit" in this forum? Are you out of your mind? The biggest problem with noobs isn't that they don't know things, its that they don't know that they don't know things but they think they already know everything. You can't put everything in a beer 101 sticky, but allowing comments covers everything.

What would you do if you saw a thread that said "FT 2009 Abyss, ISO: Beat"? Do you think trading 101 should turn into a multi page list of every beer that has ever been infected so a new trader will know to exhibit caution when trading for it, or should we allow replies and let people tell the OP and everyone who reads the thread that they should trade for that beer with caution? Can you really not see how people posting in a poor offer could somehow be an indicator of the quality of that offer. And if you didn't see some of the shit people said in your threads and adjust your offers accordingly instead of putting on your tinfoil hat and assuming everyone was just out to hype the value of that bottle that they had in their cellars, then you are being intentionally dense. If you don't care what people think of your trades and trade proposals, you should welcome threadshitting because it bumps your thread/gets it more views.

How have you ever been harmed at all by a post in one of your trade threads? I still have not found a way in which a reply to a trade thread has ever caused anyone any harm at all. Only people who could arguably claim that replies were even an inconvenience are the bros who have to clean up after all the reports people send because someone is upset that people think their trade is ridiculous, which could be easily fixed by adding mods who are experienced and well respected traders.

 

A) Obviously, had that happened, the world would have come to an end. Good things replies aren't enabled, it saved the world!

But seriously, who is being helped by the threadshitting that will once again go on if replies are enabled? Again, there seems to be the perception that once someone puts an ISO:FT up, they are holding a gun to the collective heads of all other BAs and forcing them to first read the ISO:FT, and then make an unequitable trade against their wills. I don't see things that way. I simply see replies as everybody throwing their two cents in when it hasn't been asked for. If you need help, post a thread asking what your trade value is or should be. Once you've requested help, there will be no shortage of people to guide you.

B) I can't tell if you are serious, but I certainly wasn't when I threw that line in there. I love how you seize on a throwaway sentence in the middle of my post and post your questions off of that

 

I haven't had a timeout since the change. Coincidence? =)

 

I feel there's a bit of unfair revisionism going on in regard to the old system of trade replies.

I found replies to be generally helpful and informative. Our rush to generalize the former system as some massive thread-shitting clusterfuck ignores all the helpful comments and constructive criticism that many members submitted.

 

I was not serious. I was having fun on a forum on the internet.

I can say it again if you would like. New traders are helped by replies. Sometimes quantity for quality works, but that is exceedingly rare these days. Sometimes asking for an IP trade and offering locals works... oh wait. No it doesn't. People aren't forced into a trade but they might not know about BA Yeti or 09 Abyss or any of the other many infections that happen to different vintages of beers. Maybe the OP learns that they have to add to their side to get a trade done. Or maybe they get a few extra views and a BA decides the deal is worth making and they get their trade done. Maybe (as has happened before) people figure out that an account is connected to another one that has a shady history and they post it in their trade thread to keep people away. It keeps bullshit offers to a minimum because there is at least a mild consequence for posting a stupid offer and gets rid of people who are legitimately trying to get one over on a new user (a situation which was referenced earlier in this thread).

So there are just a few people and situations that will be helped by threadshitting. Now it is your turn to come up with an equally compelling list of ways people are hurt by threadshitting. extra points if you could come up with one that would not be fixed by adding a mod who is an experienced trader and a million points if you can do it without referencing russled jimmies.

 

You just never know when somebody is gonna piss on your rug..............

 

LOL HOW? Easy. People raid my thread chiming in that what I'm asking for is unrealistic after I've got something lined up...then the person comes back and says "You know...I'm having second thoughts. Everyone seems to think you're holding me over a fire on this one. I'm going ot have to reconsider." No one else has any business whatsoever giving their two cents on whether they'd make the deal offered or not...unless I ask them. If I'm getting crickets, then obviously I've constructed a poor trade proposal. If it closes, then there was value in it. If someone questions the value of it, they can start a thread in the General/Help section and solicit opinions.

And the day someone else starts dictating what trade offers I'm allowed to make, is the day I leave this site. The fact is...ridiculous trade proposal or sound one...the people that reply are more often than not replying out of their own best interest. They're seldom attempting to be helpful or insightful. They're just trying to entertain themselves as if the ability to reply is their own personal toy.

They're better off using a thumbs up/thumbs down function. So people could get a quick idea of what others thought of the trade without having to endure the threadshitting and even worry about moderating.

 

I'd wager that has actually happened less times than the opposite scenario - whereby a person sees all the negative drama and ponies up to get the trade done and prove a point. In fact, I've seen the latter happen dozens of times, and I'm not sure I've ever even seen the former. Threadshitting is a bit of a boogeyman.

 

The trading forum may well be broken past the point of repairing. A lot of the old guard is now gone, beer releases are usually a nightmare, and trade values have continued to trend up as every beer is suddenly more and more RARE than the last. (Helped along by the reality that people now know they can collude to hoard to artificially inflate trade value.)

If it's going to continue, we need a trade feedback system and a sticky for sure. I'm also in favor of replies with a better system in place to curb the useless chatter. A three strike and you're out policy for comments which really are negative and meant to stop a trade from happening or inflate a beer's value. Good information, as rare as it is, stays.

 

So you were "harmed" because someone who didn't realize you were making a ridiculous offer found out that they could get a better offer for their beer and decided to go elsewhere? That's cool I guess. **Edit: also, see cbeer88 post. That.** It's like free speech. You can say whatever you want, but free speech is not freedom from consequences. You can make whatever offer you want, but if it's dumb, people should be able to say so. Open information is good.

And just because you don't see people's responses as helpful or insightful does not mean that they aren't. And even if they were, lack of aid or insight is not harmful. And this is a forum on the internet. It is here to entertain us. I know some would have you believe that this is very serious business, but it is just a place where a bunch of people shoot the shit about beer and have fun on the internet. Without people "trying to entertain themselves" 99.999% of the internet would not exist.

And when you say that we wouldn't have to worry about moderating, you say that as if it were an undue burden that would be forced on someone. I would bet if the bros solicited volunteers to moderate the trading forum they would get dozens of responses to choose from. No one has to worry about moderating. Endure threadshitting? You have to endure a chick flick that a girl drags you to or a mandatory lecture or pain or hardship. These are things you cannot escape. Responses on an internet forum are quite easily avoidable.

 

Does anyone have an actual case of a trade that happened in which an ignorant new trader got taken advantage of?

 

How about a permanent price check thread?