End of Year Beer Style Updates (2021)

Blog Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by Todd, Dec 2, 2021.

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  1. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,254) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    Staff Super Mod Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    There's been some great suggestions and discussions here, but now it's time to act on it.

    I'd love to add/update any beer styles that the group deems critical/long overdue before the end of the year. That said, let's focus on up to ten to keep it manageable, and then we can revisit things every quarter going forward.

    So, what are your picks?

    Thanks!
     
  2. Rug

    Rug Grand Pooh-Bah (3,300) Aug 20, 2018 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    I'd say the Czech Lagers are most overdue and most concretely defined based on recent conversation. Just my two cents!
     
  3. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,757) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Super Mod Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    IPA - Imperial New England
    IPA - Fruited/Sour
    Stout - Adjunct/Pastry
     
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  4. bbtkd

    bbtkd Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,326) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Agree, but how about Stout - Pastry (removing adjunct which is inaccurate)

    And then do we need Stout - Imperial Pastry?

    Should there be Stout - Barrel Aged?

    Lastly, how about Pilsner - Imperial American?
     
  5. Lucular

    Lucular Grand Pooh-Bah (3,943) Jun 20, 2014 Maryland
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    I started to type up requests for Double NEIPA, Milkshake IPA, and Sour IPA, but then I remembered that one beer could easily fit into all three categories, so I have no idea what to suggest. So - good luck, Todd! I'm sure you will be able to make everyone happy. :wink:

    On a more serious note, what is Imperial IPA supposed to encompass? Should it be used for higher-abv NE and Black IPAs, or is it just for WC-style IPAs (as the BA definition hints at)? The NEIPA definition says the abv tops out at 7.5%, so I'm not sure how to categorize an 8.5% NEIPA. Same for Black IPA at 7.6%.

    Belgian IPA goes up to 11% abv, so maybe it would be as simple as expanding the abv range for NEIPA and Black IPA?
     
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  6. dcotom

    dcotom Grand Pooh-Bah (5,503) Aug 4, 2014 Iowa
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    The voice of one crying in the wilderness: "Grisette and Kentucky Common!"
     
  7. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,757) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Super Mod Pooh-Bah Society Trader


    I definitely thought about Imperial Pastry. It opens the door. I also think Coffee Stout and BA Stout seem like sub-styles, but again: it opens the door for nearly limitless sub-styles at that point (Imperial BA Coffee Stout, BA Coffee Stout, etc.). One concern about adding sub-styles has always been that we can keep arguing for more and more, but more is not always better, so the line must be drawn somewhere.

    As for adjunct, that argument has been had before, but it's what many breweries themselves call it (and is in line with the dictionary definition). All style naming conventions start somewhere; is Italian Pilsner a style yet? Because according to many breweries (and Untappd), it is. Porter and Stout are different styles, despite the history of those beers implying otherwise, and we classify them as one or the other not based on any ingredient or brewing difference, but entirely based on how the brewery labels it (including Imperial Porter).

    "Adjunct" can rub some people the wrong way (as can Italian Pilsner, or a "Kölsch not brewed in Köln), but at some point, people need to adapt and move on. If it becomes common in the industry (and it clearly has, not to confuse being common with becoming the standard, which it is not), I don't see the point in yelling at clouds.
     
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  8. Roguer

    Roguer Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,757) Mar 25, 2013 Connecticut
    Super Mod Pooh-Bah Society Trader


    Right now, imperial strength NE IPAs and Black IPAs get categorized under their base styles, not the strength - although as you note, the definition does not current reflect that. I think there aren't enough examples of imperial strength Black IPAs to justify the sub-style, but that's definitely not the case with imperial NE IPAs.

    Kind of similar to why we don't really need a Triple or Quadruple IPA (to say nothing about how Double is about the number of "I"s in Imperial India ... ), although one can certainly make an argument for it (I suppose I technically did in a previous post, pointing out that breweries do use this terminology to describe their own product). There aren't all that many II/III IPAs, compared to the amount of IPAs and IIPAs on the whole, so we probably just don't need to split the atom too much on strength. :slight_smile:
     
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  9. REVZEB

    REVZEB Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,092) Mar 28, 2013 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    You know :stuck_out_tongue: #splitupsaison
    -traditional
    -mixed culture
    -Grisette
    -table beer
    -biere du coupage
    -etc
     
  10. paulish

    paulish Grand Pooh-Bah (3,090) Feb 2, 2014 New York
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Agree, except Stout - Adjunct/Pastry
    My suggest - Imperial Milk stout
     
  11. Beersnake

    Beersnake Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,330) Aug 17, 2013 California
    Super Mod Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    I would not split anything into a "barrel aged" category. You could do this with so many styles now. Barleywine, porter, doppelbock, etc.
     
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  12. Beersnake

    Beersnake Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,330) Aug 17, 2013 California
    Super Mod Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    I like the idea of a "Stout - Pastry" category. I think the definition just needs to be clarified. If it's simply a dessert stout, then does a chocolate stout count? Does it need to have lactose to fit into the category?
     
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  13. Amendm

    Amendm Pooh-Bah (2,305) Jun 7, 2018 Rhode Island
    Pooh-Bah Society

    American Imperial Brown Ale.
    I would like to see my lighter bodied favorites separated from my high ABV, full bodied Porter-like favorites so that each will have a chance to shine in their own category.
    Either way, Cheers.
     
  14. DVMin98

    DVMin98 Grand Pooh-Bah (4,501) Nov 1, 2010 North Carolina
    Super Mod Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Definitely:

    Imp NEIPA
    Pastry Stout +/- Imp Pastry Stout
     
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  15. StJamesGate

    StJamesGate Grand Pooh-Bah (3,462) Oct 8, 2007 New York
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Blonde/Golden Ale - English

    Most suggestions here are about being more precise; this change actually fixes something inaccurate.

    Quite a few entries on BA would be called Blondes or Golden Ales by breweries, pubs, patrons, festivals + beer writers in the UK.
    (Currently there are some listed under Pale Ale - English and nearly all the Mild Ale - English Pale - which could also go away as a style, imho.)

    I've beat this drum before - I'll even help with the migration/reassignment, if you need - so let's see it happen!
     
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  16. Rug

    Rug Grand Pooh-Bah (3,300) Aug 20, 2018 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Are you suggesting Imperial Milk synonymous with Adjunct/Pastry? I don't necessarily agree with that. There are some pastry stouts without lactose so I think Pastry is a better catch-all
     
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  17. Rug

    Rug Grand Pooh-Bah (3,300) Aug 20, 2018 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    I'd be in favor of upping the abv limits of NEIPA and Black IPA, Imperial IPA to me is typically West Coast influenced
     
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  18. paulish

    paulish Grand Pooh-Bah (3,090) Feb 2, 2014 New York
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    1. My suggest - don't touch Double American Imperial Stout.
    2. It will be great to separate regular milk Stout with Milk Stout with high level alcohol.
     
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  19. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,837) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Super Mod Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    In the same vein, I was thinking:
    IPA - Imperial New England
    IPA - Fruited/Sour
    Stout - Flavored/Pastry (with an ABV range that could encompasses traditional and imperial versions)
     
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  20. FBarber

    FBarber Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,161) Mar 5, 2016 Illinois
    Super Mod Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Seconded!! We really need to expand the Czech Lager selection especially since so many craft breweries are brewing these Czech styles now.

    I also think that Imperial NEIPA makes a ton of sense .
     
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