What’s the Difference? Share your Side-by-Side (2021)

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by jonphisher, Jan 16, 2021.

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  1. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,651) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah Society

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    I have an interesting follow up to my previous "what's the difference" tasting which I thought I would share. I've known for a while that an American lager beer had won a tender for year round placement in the monopoly stores here for launch in December. Well it turns out that the winning offer was Lone Star. But not just any Lone Star beer. It's 4.5% abv at 30 kcal/100ml, or 30 calories per 100 ml, which comes out to 106 calories per 12oz. So light beer specs at a regular beer abv. That would explain the blue color scheme I guess, same as for Lone Star Light. But there's more. The ingredients list lists only water, barley malt, hops and yeast. So it's an all malt American light beer. It's also brewed and canned "in the EU". So it's an all-malt American light beer, at a higher abv, brewed and canned in the EU. Another thing worth mentioning is the 50cl/16.9oz can size and the price which is comparable to domestic brands while PBR and other American brands are priced higher as imports. Should make for an interesting tasting.
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    So then, on to the tasting. The difference in carbonation is once again striking, with the PBR having a terrible head retention and a head of foam which fizzes away like a soda. Colorwise there is a difference this time, the Lone Star is noticably lighter colored, similar to an all-pilsner malt grist without any Munich or roasted malt to give it the typical golden color. The aroma of the Lone Star has a very mild, but also bright hop note which the PBR lacks. The PBR instead has the fruity, slightly sweet aroma that I've come to expect from it. The Lone Star has zero fermentation character in the aroma, it is very clean smelling.

    Tastewise the Lone Star again has a noticable, light but bright hop flavor. In the American version I couldn't tell if the hops were American or European, which in hindsight makes me think they were American, here the aroma and taste is decidedly German in my opinion. It is a very mild taste, but at the same time it is brighter and fresher than in most big name lager brands. They are obviously using hop pellets here, maybe in the whirlpool, to accentuate the hops while using a small hop addition over all. The taste of PBR in comparison is rather pungently fruity from the fermentation and you can taste that it is an adjunct lager while the Lone Star is all malt. I don't pick up on any hop notes in the PBR. The bitterness is slightly stronger in the Lone Star than in the PBR but it is very slight. When I first tasted it I perceived no bitterness, but compared with PBR it has a slight one whilst being lower than in a Swedish Export lager or even an international lager like Carlsberg. Maybe it's around 10 for PBR and around 15 or so for the Lone Star? The Lone Star is very dry but not chalky.

    The Lone Star tastes like a very clean European all malt lager that has been brewed at a lower than normal original gravity (maybe it's around 9% plato?) for it's abv, extremely strongly attenuated (without any perceptible, negative flavors or aromas despite of this), dosed with a smaller bittering charge than is typical for European conditions whilst having a light but accentuated hop aroma and flavor that provides the only real taste or aroma present in the beer. The PBR tastes overtly like an adjunct lager instead.

    In the first tasting the two beers seemed to be very close to one another recipe-wise, it was obvious that they had a shared ancestry, while being separated by the added hop flavor and better foam in the Lone Star. In this tasting it is clear that these are two completly different beers. It's been an interesting experience which highlights some differences between contemporary American and European lager beer brewing.
     
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  2. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    Patrik, do you have an understanding of labeling requirements of Sweden (or the EU)? The front label of the Lone Star beer solely makes mention of "Texas":
    • "The National Beer of Texas" is listed twice
    • "Texas Style Lager"
    There was a 'stink' made a few years ago when AB decided to brew Beck's beer in the US and it was only after legal actions that the label was 'updated' to specifically mention "Product of the USA" on the front label:

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    I suppose it is OK in Sweden (EU) to just list where the Lone Star beer is produced on the non-front label?

    Cheers!
     
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  3. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,651) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Well for one thing I think, and I would hope, that frivolous litigation is significantly less profitable over here :stuck_out_tongue:.

    On a more serious note I think some terms of origin are protected while others are not. So for example Bourbon whiskey, or Munich beer are protected at the EU level. I doubt that Texas lager has a recognized status within the EU, so by phrasing it as Texas style lager and declaring the origin on another part of the label I'm thinking they are in the clear.
     
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  4. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    A side-by-side I just posted in the NBW thread:

    It’s a Celebration!

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    Today’s a special day since it includes a long-time favorite of Sierra Nevada Celebration IPA but also a brand spankin’ new beer Brooklyn Winter IPA. Below is how Brooklyn details this beer on their website:

    “FROSTY HOPS & WARM RYE

    Cold weather calls for thick knit hats, swift sleds, and Brooklyn Winter IPA. This classic IPA layers Simcoe and Trident hops for notes of dark fruit, blood orange, and bright, frosty juniper and pine aromas. A touch of rye spice notes warm the finish to keep you cozy to the core. Stock up and enjoy the flurries while they last.

    STYLE: RED IPA

    ABV: 7.0%

    AVAILABILITY

    LIMITED

    FORMAT

    Draft, 12oz cans, and 12oz bottles

    TASTING NOTES

    Wintry and warming with notes of juniper, blackberry jam, rye spice and fresh snowfall”

    https://brooklynbrewery.com/brooklyn-beers/seasonals/winter-ipa/

    How will this new beer from Brooklyn compare to my old-time favorite of Celebration?

    Well, let’s find out.

    Beers served in Spiegelau IPA glasses:

    Appearance

    Brooklyn Winter IPA: Amber colored with a khaki colored head.

    SN Celebration IPA: Amber colored (slightly darker in comparison) with a khaki colored head

    Aroma

    Brooklyn Winter IPA: There is notable hop aromas (citrus, fruity, a hint of pine) and also malt aromas including some caramel

    SN Celebration IPA: The nose is a combination of malty (e.g., caramel) and hop aromas (citrus and some pine).

    Taste:

    Brooklyn Winter IPA: The flavor follows the nose with a pleasant balance of hop and malt flavors (detailed above). It has a medium bitterness.

    SN Celebration IPA: The flavor is predominantly malts (e.g., caramel) but there is hop flavors there as well. It has a medium bitterness.

    Mouthfeel


    Brooklyn Winter IPA: Light - medium bodied with a dry-ish finish.

    SN Celebration IPA: Medium bodied with a soft-ish mouthfeel which ends with an off-dry finish.

    Overall

    Brooklyn Winter IPA: This beer is very good. I really enjoyed the great balance of hop and malt flavors.

    SN Celebration IPA: This beer is very good too. As I do every year, I enjoyed drinking this seasonal beer with the soft-ish mouthfeel being a plus for me.

    These two beers are quite similar in nature. Hindsight being 20/20 it would have been fun to conduct a blind triangle taste test but there is enough difference in the qualities of these two beers I have little doubt that I would have selected the ‘odd’ beer from this taste test.

    I had two beers so I offered to my wife a chance to take sips of each glass and select which one she would like to drink; she selected the Sierra Nevada Celebration IPA. There was no bad choice here IMO.

    Cheers!

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  5. jonphisher

    jonphisher Grand Pooh-Bah (3,436) Aug 9, 2015 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Will see you for the blind next week...?
     
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  6. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Hmm? Is that an oxymoron!?! :confused:

    Cheers!
     
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  7. ESHBG

    ESHBG Pooh-Bah (2,099) Jul 30, 2011 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    It's time for a blizzard...of hops. Yeah, no snow coming here anytime soon and for the most part it's been unusually warm and more warm weather is on the way. Today on my walk I saw a flock of Robins (we usually don't see them again until Spring), other birds that are usually down south by now, saw so many bugs, fish hitting the surface like they do in the warmer months and lots of green and parts of trees and bushes that never changed colors or dropped leaves at the lower levels...odd times indeed...

    This is my first time trying Troegs Double Blizzard of Hops and I had a bottle of the regular version on hand and thought that this would be fun. The hop bill is identical but what's interesting is Double uses a cooler temperature for the kettle hop additions to soften it.

    Double: pours from a 16 oz can a hazy yellow/slight light orange. Smell between them both is almost identical, didn't expect that (the Double has just a little more nose, though). Taste is soft and the 8.3% is dangerously hidden. Pineapple comes through, a bit of pine, nice firm but not overpowering bitterness and ends a touch dryly. A nice cross between an NEIPA and a WC I would say. Very drinkable for the size of the beer.

    Single: pours from a bottle a clear yellow, looks like a Pilsner (but no surprise there with the malts used). Head is not too big but lingers. Taste is nice and crisp, refreshing. Bitter and firm but not overwhelming (the 80 IBU figure is a bit misleading). If you told me that this was a really hoppy Pilsner I could probably get on board with that, which makes me like it even more.

    Winner? It's a draw. They are definitely brothers and they did a good job with making this beer a bigger version of the single which is cool, as sometimes the single vs double versions from breweries can taste like completely unrelated beers. You want bigger and slightly softer, a little less bitter? Grab the Double. You want smaller, crisp, firm bitterness? Grab the single...you could not go wrong with either choice. Prost!
     
  8. cjgiant

    cjgiant Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,560) Jul 13, 2013 District of Columbia
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Wait, I haven't posted on this page, yet?!? Time to fix that.

    I went to the fridge to grab the two bottles for this comparison, and found this was my last of regular Arthur from HF. I was bummed temporarily as I thought I had more, but maybe I shared them all. Then I thought, "Dude! You consolidated boxes, right? I bet there's a bottle or two in that Sierra Nevada box."

    And there was.

    With the crowd warmed up, I'll move on to the main attraction, a comparison of the base brew with a Cascade dry-hopped version. The hops are from the Yakima Valley award-winning, apparently. The Cascade had a plastic pseudo-cork, whereas the regular didn't.

    Perhaps that helped the Cascade have a more prominent head initially. HF beers almost always have a nice head, although my pour of regular Arthur didn't build up much. They both have a nice ring (Cascade's slightly more voluminous) as I type, though.
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    On the nose, there isn't as huge a difference as I expected. The regular Arthur is a little more bright and distinctly fruity with a promise of some amount of acidity. The Cascade has a muted version of this, with a bit of fresh wood. This is odd as the extra time was spent in stainless steel, and I didn't expect this scent from Cascade.

    That said, Cascade seems like it might be more nuanced and slightly more complex.

    And here's where it gets weird...

    In a relative sense, the Cascade seems a bit more watery. I think it is because the promise of acidity comes through, leaning towards tart in the regular Arthur. In comparison, the bitter blanket that the Cascade has makes it seem weak.

    What's odd is that on its own (after a break and some water), I quite like the light bitterness of the Cascade version. It does have a slight bit of a toothpaste and citrus juice in the transition from open to close, but surprisingly that isn't bothering me as much as I'd have thought.

    Strangeness continues... if I go back to regular Arthur, I get distinctly minty note in the opening, which conflicts with the tartness in a way I sort of thought Cascade might on its own.

    It's almost like these two beers don't want to share your attention, each trying to ruin the other. Given that, I think I'll sip them separately from now on.

    The GF noted she thought they tasted very similar, but liked the Adroit Theory glass more - which is the Cascade version for her as well.


    Side notes:
    Regular Arthur was bottled on May 5th, and it was wonderful as late as September. When I focus on it by itself, it seems to be fading a bit from what I recall (it has not been refrigerated since its early September purchase until about a week ago). It seems a bit more simple by losing some of its "farmhouse qualities" in my perception. It also feels a tad heavier.

    Cascade indicates it has been bottle conditioning since late July 2020, and followed the same post-purchase fate at my hands. It almost seems more of pale ale nature to it, with the tang being the thing holding it by its belt loop from falling into that category (again, in my perception).

    Cheers, all!
     
  9. Obsidian81

    Obsidian81 Devotee (326) Mar 3, 2016 Illinois

    I’ve been drinking a lot of Left Hand Milk Stout lately and have really gotten back into that beer. This weekend, I tried the regular and Nitro version side-by-side, both bottles with a 4/XX/22 BB date.

    i thought the Nitro version was inferior by a noticeable margin. It just seemed bland and subdued. It did have much less sweetness, though, which some people may prefer. That said, the regular version is on the dry side, which keeps the sweetness from being too overwhelming.

    I recognize this comparison has been done a million times on the internet, but this was just my experience.
     
    #529 Obsidian81, Dec 15, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2021
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  10. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    FWIW, I often find nitro versions of beer brands to be bland, subdued, inferior as compared to non-nitro versions. Just my (and yours?) palate thing?

    Cheers!
     
  11. ESHBG

    ESHBG Pooh-Bah (2,099) Jul 30, 2011 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Add me to this list as well. Depending on the beer I do like how it mellows and smooths it out a bit but yes I never expect much with nitro beers anymore.
     
  12. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,088) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Same here, but for some beers it works. Guinness has always been good on nitro to me.

    I also had a homebrewed ESB on nitro this past weekend, and it was fantastic.
     
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  13. Phoodcritic

    Phoodcritic Pooh-Bah (1,868) Jul 3, 2014 Michigan
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    Last night, three friends and I held a BBA imperial stout tasting session, mostly with Russian imperial stouts. We started with three rounds of side-by-side comparisons of stouts from Michigan (Plead the 5th, Perrin Reserve, and Saugatuck Double Dramanatrix) and California (BA Narwhal, Fyodor, and Lagunitas Willetized). These beers received very similar overall ratings. Perrin Reserve, aged on raisins, had the most distinctive flavor. In the end, the state-to-state matchup was a draw.

    We finished with some special stouts in our final round: Cycle R3 Rare DOS, Jackie O’s XVth Anniversary Stout, and Dogfish Head Utopias WWS. All four of us agreed that Cycle edged out Jackie O’s as the best of the nine stouts we sampled.
     
  14. snaotheus

    snaotheus Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,910) Oct 6, 2008 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

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    I guess this is the place to put this...an eight year vertical of BCBS. I didn't take detailed notes because it was as much a social engagement as a beer thing, and I don't like going nose down with notes too often when being social. But, here are some thoughts.

    The difference between 2014 and 2021 is huge. 2014 is rich, smooth, and super chocolatey; 2021 is way hotter.

    We had a bad bottle of 2015. This was particularly interesting. My friend brought this bottle. It had a cherry cough syrup flavor that wasn't very pleasant. I had my own 2015 bottle of it, and as it turns out, it was a different batch. His bottle (if memory serves) was bottled 12 October 2015 and was 13.7% abv, mine was 6 October and 14.3% abv. Mine was good. But there was still a big difference between 2014 and 2015.

    It seemed like the last two years were pretty consistent with each other, the 2015-2019 had a fair amount of variation between them.

    Everyone's favorite by far was the 2014. I'm pretty confident that result would hold if it was blind. I think the 2020 2021 would be recognizably hotter blind, but I think the rest of them would just be a mixed bag.

    We didn't do it on an empty stomach, don't worry. :slight_smile:
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  15. defunksta

    defunksta Pooh-Bah (2,980) Jan 18, 2019 Wisconsin
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    [​IMG]
    A Tale of Two Brown Ales!

    1) New Glarus Fat Squirrel (5.8%): An English-style Brown Ale from Wisconsin with flavors of toasted caramel malts, nuts, and chocolate, Low carbonation, smooth, and malty.
    versus
    2) Bells Best Brown Ale (5.8%): An American-style Brown ale from Michigan with flavors of red fruit, toasted caramel, and hints of pine. Slightly hoppy with more of a bite.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Two very enjoyable brown ales, yet drink differently.
     
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  16. snaotheus

    snaotheus Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,910) Oct 6, 2008 Washington
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    Last post was a non-blind (sighted?) vertical of huge barrel aged stouts, and the next day I went the opposite direction with a five way blind side-by-side of AALs. @FBarber was interested in my results.

    The orange sticky note on the left identifies Beer #1.
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    I knew ahead of time which five beers were there, but we employed my kids to pour them and keep track of which was which, and I loved the note on the back of the "reveal".
    [​IMG]

    My hastily-scrawled thoughts before the reveal:
    #1: AAL funk and watery in flavor.
    #2: Tastes the "cleanest" of the group.
    #3: Has the mildest taste of the five.
    #4: Has the mildest smell.
    #5: Is also very mild smelling. Has the most AAL funk in the flavor.

    Visibly, if there's any difference between the five of them, it's in the head, and that's minimal. In fact, overall, they're all incredibly similar, and unless you were paying extremely close attention, I would consider them pretty much interchangeable. Ranking them in order of preference: #2, #1, #3, #4, #5. But, the spacing is pretty minuscule.

    My attempt to identify:
    #1: PBR
    #2: Hamm's
    #3: Rainier
    #4: Miller
    #5: Bud

    And the reveal:
    [​IMG]

    I only named Rainier correctly, and Hamm's is the one I ranked last. I was convinced it was my favorite before this blind experience, now I see that if I want to have an AAL in the fridge, it doesn't really matter which one it is. I didn't buy any for a period of months when I couldn't locate any Hamm's.

    The other activity was spending the entire day baking a mountain of cookies. I mean, we also drank a bunch of other beer and some hard egg nog.
    [​IMG]
     
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  17. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Just to double check: the fact that Bud was your number 1 beer in this blind tasting has no influence in future purchases? You would just as soon purchase a Hamm's which came in at 5?

    Cheers!
     
  18. snaotheus

    snaotheus Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,910) Oct 6, 2008 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    The comment about not buying any AAL for months was before I did this blind tasting and was convinced that Hamm's was a favorite. Now that I've done it and see that it doesn't hold up when I can't see the label, I'll probably change up for future purchases.
     
  19. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    A plus for Hamm's is the price: less than 15 bucks for a 30 pack in my area.

    Cheers!
     
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  20. jonphisher

    jonphisher Grand Pooh-Bah (3,436) Aug 9, 2015 New Jersey
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    I was wondering where you were this weekend @snaotheus and now I know.

    I enjoyed both of those posts a lot.
     
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