Flanders Reds & Oud Bruins

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by OneDropSoup, Feb 2, 2013.

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  1. OneDropSoup

    OneDropSoup Pooh-Bah (2,213) Dec 9, 2008 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    This is my favorite family of beers right now, & I feel that, among the distinct styles, these are the two that have the most blurring between them. So many Reds are labeled Bruins & vice versa. The BJCP calls them one thing, Michael Jackson another, & this site may or may not agree with either of those. And then there are so many anomalies (Petrus Aged Pale, Liefmans Cuvee Brut, et al.). The only ones people seem to agree on are the archetypes - Liefmans & Rodenbach. I propose a synthesis of the two, call it 'Flanders Acetic Ale' or something. Anyone feel me on this?
     
    #1 OneDropSoup, Feb 2, 2013
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  2. IceAce

    IceAce Pooh-Bah (2,274) Jan 8, 2004 California
    Pooh-Bah

    ...and so it goes with most Belgian brews.
     
    #2 IceAce, Feb 2, 2013
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  3. OneDropSoup

    OneDropSoup Pooh-Bah (2,213) Dec 9, 2008 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    True. The BSDA/Quadruple question is another big one. And BSPAs & Tripels. And the Saisons & Bieres de Garde...

    I'd venture that someone could argue the stylistic distinction between American Reds & Ambers, but here they're combined. Why not the same with these two?
     
    #3 OneDropSoup, Feb 2, 2013
  4. gatornation

    gatornation Grand High Pooh-Bah (10,388) Apr 18, 2007 Arizona
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    i like them both depends on what side of town you are on
     
    #4 gatornation, Feb 2, 2013
  5. OneDropSoup

    OneDropSoup Pooh-Bah (2,213) Dec 9, 2008 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    So maybe there's a geographic distinction? Those closer to Roeselare are Reds & those closer to Oudenaarde are Bruins?
     
    #5 OneDropSoup, Feb 2, 2013
  6. newitalic

    newitalic Initiate (0) Apr 30, 2010 Massachusetts

    I agree about Flander's Red and Oud Bruin. I just call them all Flemish sours. I don't completely agree with the others. Tripel and BGSA is quite close, but BGSA is nearly always drier and paler. And Saisons and Bieres de Garde are really worlds apart, in yeast, hop, and malt character. Have you ever had a biere de garde?
     
    #6 newitalic, Feb 3, 2013
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  7. OneDropSoup

    OneDropSoup Pooh-Bah (2,213) Dec 9, 2008 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I've had a few, never close enough together to really get an accurate picture of the style, I'll admit, or what differentiates them from saisons. I feel like there's enough variability with the saison profile that some of them fall very close to a biere de garde anyway.

    And I hear you on the Tripel/BSPA/BGSA categories, but take a look at Chimay Tripel - probably the most ubiquitous example of the style & way drier than most Tripels out there.
     
    #7 OneDropSoup, Feb 3, 2013
  8. Blueribbon666

    Blueribbon666 Pooh-Bah (1,669) Jul 4, 2008 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah

    The only one I have had to date & I rather enjoyed it, Bellegens Bruin.
     
    #8 Blueribbon666, Feb 3, 2013
  9. PatriotsRule

    PatriotsRule Initiate (0) Sep 25, 2012 Massachusetts

    Go bruins!
     
    #9 PatriotsRule, Feb 3, 2013
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  10. EdH

    EdH Crusader (449) Jul 27, 2005 Utah

    You might be more worried about "style guidelines" than the people who make these beers.
     
    #10 EdH, Feb 3, 2013
  11. OneDropSoup

    OneDropSoup Pooh-Bah (2,213) Dec 9, 2008 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Sure, but then why do the guidelines exist? Plenty of authorities see fit to differentiate two styles, despite the fact that most commercial examples are much blurrier & overlap. It seems that if there are not real world authenticators or standard-bearers, why do the BJCP, Michael Jackson, BA, et al. deem it fit to separate them? The GABF lumps both into one style category, but still calls it "Flanders Red or Oud Bruin".
     
    #11 OneDropSoup, Feb 3, 2013
  12. Danny1217

    Danny1217 Initiate (0) Jul 15, 2011 Florida

    I consider them the same style. Same goes for BSDAs and Quads. Tripels are still sort of their own category, though there are a few BSPAs that could also be considered tripels.

    You'd think it'd be easy to tell the difference between these two though. One should be red, and the other brown.
     
    #12 Danny1217, Feb 3, 2013
  13. jrbuckt

    jrbuckt Initiate (0) Sep 13, 2012 Illinois

    I'm not sure if it's actually an appellation, but the difference between Oud Bruins and and Flanders Red, as mentioned earlier, is almost entirely geographical.
     
    #13 jrbuckt, Feb 3, 2013
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  14. MrDanno96

    MrDanno96 Initiate (0) Aug 26, 2009 New York
    Trader

    This. IMO there is no relevant difference between the two. Indeed, I have seen Duchesse called both at reputable beer bars.
     
    #14 MrDanno96, Feb 3, 2013
  15. Jonada

    Jonada Savant (1,174) May 23, 2012 New Jersey
    Trader

    I don't care what you call em. They're freakin delicious!
     
    #15 Jonada, Feb 3, 2013
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  16. Dennoman

    Dennoman Initiate (0) Aug 20, 2011 Belgium

    Funny how most people associate geuze and lambic exclusively with Brussels. The Pajottenland region, where quite a few of them hail from, is Flemish.
     
    #16 Dennoman, Feb 3, 2013
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  17. Tut

    Tut Pundit (872) Sep 23, 2004 New York

    Good to see someone using the correct form, "Flemish". Saying Flanders Red Ales is equivalent to saying France red wines.
     
    #17 Tut, Feb 3, 2013
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  18. CarolinaKevin

    CarolinaKevin Initiate (0) Feb 28, 2010 North Carolina

    Since we are on the subject, I'd like to know which Oude Bruins or Flemish/Flanders Reds really blew you away. For me, Oude Tart got me to notice they style, and cascade kriek really converted me
     
    #18 CarolinaKevin, Feb 3, 2013
  19. bs870621345

    bs870621345 Initiate (0) Oct 29, 2009 Iowa

    IIRC, according to Wild Brews, bruins are fermented in stainless steel and Reds are barrel aged.
     
    #19 bs870621345, Feb 3, 2013
  20. OneDropSoup

    OneDropSoup Pooh-Bah (2,213) Dec 9, 2008 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I thought this was a distinguishing characteristics as well, but I swear there is some inconsistency with this (though I can't think of specific examples off the top of my head).
     
    #20 OneDropSoup, Feb 3, 2013
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