Why do NE IPAs get knocked for appearance, but Hefeweizens don't?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by CNoj012, Mar 23, 2017.

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  1. CNoj012

    CNoj012 Initiate (0) Dec 7, 2014 New York

    I've been really getting into hefeweizens lately and notice many aspects of their appearance are similar to that of NE style IPAs.

    In fact, these two sentences are copied straight from the hefeweizen beer style page right here on BA.

    "The "Hefe" prefix means "with yeast", hence the beers unfiltered and cloudy appearance. Poured into a traditional Weizen glass, the Hefeweizen can be one sexy looking beer."

    I know there is a sector of BAs (including the bros) who knock the hazy, murky cloudy appearance of NE style IPAs. So my question is, why is the unfiltered appearance of hefeweizens celebrated, but it is seen as a negative aspect of appearance for NE style IPAs.
     
  2. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,535) Mar 28, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah Society

    I've never seen a hef look like gravy. I love the look of a hazy bright IPA, but a dull murky, gravy one negative.
     
  3. champ103

    champ103 Grand Pooh-Bah (5,682) Sep 3, 2007 Texas
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Most hefeweizens don't look like yeast slurry/sludge in a glass. I have seen a few that do look like some of the NEIPA's posted in the forums in the past. I have always thought that was bad and rated so when I had the chance (which was way before this trend ever existed). "Haze" is fine. Looking like sludge and being a muddled mess is not. I have had countless unfiltered beers in many different styles that did not look like what most NEIPA's are.
     
  4. EnronCFO

    EnronCFO Pooh-Bah (1,969) Mar 29, 2007 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Because it's not called Hefe Pale Ale
     
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  5. MFMB

    MFMB Initiate (0) Jan 23, 2015 Idaho

    Because that's what the guidelines say?

    IPA:
    Appearance: Color ranges from golden amber to light copper, but most are pale to medium amber with an orange-ish tint. Should be clear, although unfiltered dry-hopped versions may be a bit hazy. Good head stand with off-white color should persist.

    Hefe:
    Appearance: Pale straw to very dark gold in color. A very thick, moussy, long-lasting white head is characteristic. The high protein content of wheat impairs clarity in an unfiltered beer, although the level of haze is somewhat variable. A beer “mit hefe” is also cloudy from suspended yeast sediment (which should be roused before drinking). The filtered Krystal version has no yeast and is brilliantly clear.
     
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  6. StoutElk_92

    StoutElk_92 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,781) Oct 30, 2015 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Hefeweizens and the number of Belgian beers that are unfiltered. I'm pretty sure my Rocheforts, Duvel, Orval, and many others had a bit of yeasty sludge in them, and obviously the darker styles like a dubbel look more like "gravy" than an amber/golden pale ale does.

    Dunkelweizen, Weizenbock, and Roggenbier are a few other styles that are usually cloudy that don't include hefe in the name.
     
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  7. TongoRad

    TongoRad Grand Pooh-Bah (3,848) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    You're supposed to decant the Belgian beers, and will get a pretty clear appearance if you do. Except Orval, but that's just haze at that point.
     
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  8. CNoj012

    CNoj012 Initiate (0) Dec 7, 2014 New York

    I thought the Paulaner hefe I had the other night was quite hazy, as well as Weihenstephaner.

    But to clarify, why is an unfiltered appearance considered "sexy" for a hefe or any of the other styles mentioned by @StoutElk_92 but it detracts from the appearance of IPAs.
     
  9. CNoj012

    CNoj012 Initiate (0) Dec 7, 2014 New York

    And I want to state that I have no horse in this race. I love both styles and am just curious.

    I agree with posters who say the dark, murky, gravy looking beers do not look sexy, but I do enjoy the cloudy OJ appearance of others.

    Also out of the 5 scoring categories, appearance has the least effect on my enjoyment of a beer.
     
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  10. TongoRad

    TongoRad Grand Pooh-Bah (3,848) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Probably just because it takes a few years for newer substyles to be established and have their guidelines compiled. Give it time.
     
  11. StoutElk_92

    StoutElk_92 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,781) Oct 30, 2015 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Sometimes people don't like change. IPAs were clear for most of our current craft beer history. These cloudy IPAs are still fairly new. People need to get adjusted to them first.
     
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  12. Giantspace

    Giantspace Pooh-Bah (2,879) Dec 22, 2011 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Agree....look of a beer means zero to me at the end of the day. Done so look nicer but it's about taste for me.

    Enjoy
     
  13. EnronCFO

    EnronCFO Pooh-Bah (1,969) Mar 29, 2007 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Society

    The yeast is a driving factor in the taste of a hefeweizen, so it's expected as part of the appearance. IPAs, generally, are driven by the malt and hop combos. In addition, the haze isn't always yeast. Many brewers are adding things or purposefully using low quality yeast strains that remain suspended to create an appearance that, to some of us, has the side effect of detracting from the flavor. Sometimes beers that look like sludge taste like it by the third sip.
     
  14. anfield86

    anfield86 Pooh-Bah (2,594) Nov 21, 2006 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Probably because the hefeweizen style has existed for hundreds of years and the NE IPA has existed for...I don't know exactly....just a few? New things can be difficult to judge, I guess.

    I think NE-style IPAS look like hefeweizens...not the other way around:wink:. For me personally, I agree with what others have said. At the end of the day looks don't mean a whole lot. It's what inside (flavor) that counts. Cheers!
     
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  15. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,274) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Because one is a classic style that has been brewed in this tradition for hundreds of years, the other is a rogue beer at this point that is not yet a style and has been around a few years.
     
  16. David_Deas

    David_Deas Initiate (0) Jan 26, 2016 North Carolina

    The answer is simple.

    In the case of Heff's they have always been that way, so the conservative mind isn't offended.

    However, West Coast IPA's have usually been filtered throughout most of their modern history so a cloudy IPA offends the conservative mind.

    The reason has nothing to do with anything of actual substance. In the case of the IPA, it's basically just a bunch of old farts talking about the way things should be.
     
    #16 David_Deas, Mar 23, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
  17. meefmoff

    meefmoff Pooh-Bah (1,848) Jul 6, 2014 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    With respect, I can't think of a less satisfying answer than "because the guidelines say so". And the same would apply to many, many, other questions outside the world of beer as well.
     
  18. RangerBuddy

    RangerBuddy Initiate (0) Feb 16, 2016 Missouri

    Just like tripels with the bandaid flavor, if unfiltered pat iPas were brewed in Europe for a long time it would be accepted by the people who think what they're told.
     
  19. HorseheadsHophead

    HorseheadsHophead Grand Pooh-Bah (3,708) Sep 15, 2014 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    There are a number of IPAs that I think receive some warranted flak for being brewed to meet a certain standard of appearance, with less focus on the taste. Haze sells. Especially now that you have some breweries using wheat flour, etc.
    But as far as comparative looks go, you're right. Most of the hefeweizens I've had look identical in appearance to some NE IPAs. Cloudy opaque appearances are not original or exclusive to new IPAs.
     
  20. MFMB

    MFMB Initiate (0) Jan 23, 2015 Idaho

    Thanks that was respectful of you. I love hazy IPAs but the question kind of lent itself to the guidelines explanation no? See going back to when I started drinking beer Hefeweizens were always hazy because? Well because they are supposed to be. I don't give a hazy IPA less of a score on look infact I appreciate the haze and probably give it a better score than I should! I'm all for clear hefeweizens and cloudy IPAs. We would hammer a stout if it lacked body right? Why? Because the guidelines say what a stouts body should be and that is what we are use to. Every style and its nuances are ingrained in our heads and if they are lacking or do not fall In line with what we are use to then we criticize. So I think the guidelines answer is the correct answer. Cheers
     
    #20 MFMB, Mar 23, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
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