Site A case for "hads"

Discussion in 'Support & Suggestions' started by ridglens, Feb 24, 2013.

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  1. ridglens

    ridglens Initiate (0) Jan 10, 2010 Indiana

    so, it seems like there is generally a disrespect for the "hads" ratings since they've been added (though there are still tons showing up).... and while i have immense respect for full reviews and the many incredible beer reviewers we have here, and have attempted to write a few myself, i think "hads" is a great addition because of the following (for me personally):

    -most beers i drink are not drunk in a review-able setting. many are at bars/releases/tastings, and i'm usually trying to enjoy company/discussing the beer, not about to type into my phone/pc for 10 minutes, but can type in a quick number

    -i tried the note-taking-to-type-in-later deal, but along with the same issues as above (ie: i feel like a jerk to ignore friends/family for 10 minutes while taking notes), they would pile up and it would be no fun to type them all in.

    -most of my reviews (and many others reviews, but not all) are really repetitive.... how many reviews do we need to say "this IPA has some grassy/piney/grapefruit/citrus hoppiness" or "stout smells like coffee and chocolate, some bourbon/vanilla"... again many reviews are worthwhile, i just didn't feel like mine added much!

    - I sometimes am guilty of manipulating the scores... flame me if you will, but if i rank Hopslam below two-hearted because on that particular night with that particular glass at the bar the lacing was better on 2-hearted, i'm adjusting my "appearance" or "overall" rating to try and get the actual number to reflect my real preferences/favorites... call me a noob, but at least "hads" cuts out the middle man!

    I definitely get that all ratings should be thought out, and critically given, and i get why people might think that a "hads" rating encourages less thoughtful ratings... but, i think there are a great many of us that really enjoy evaluating beers, but don't enjoy/take the time writing up full reviews. do we think about them/discuss them? sure, we just appreciate the brevity of a score i guess!

    Bash if you want, it's sunday and the wife is out of town/there is no football on, might as well argue on the internet! haha
  2. jakesingleton

    jakesingleton Initiate (0) Nov 2, 2011 Arizona

    I wonder how the soon to be released (hopefully) BeerAdvocate app will effect this discussion. From what I've seen on Untappd, the simple 'hads' numeric ranking can result in similar results to those found from full review ranking systems. Said differently, the top rated list on Untappd (which only allows simple/quick numeric rankings) has a lot of the same beers seen on the top 250 list here in BA.
  3. AndyAvalanche

    AndyAvalanche Savant (994) Jun 16, 2008 Massachusetts

    Good call. Never picked up on the dislike for "hads," in fact many people I've talked seemed to like the idea, but sometimes I'm guilty of disappearing for a little while and don't pay attention that all BA has to offer in the forums. However I like what you're saying and agree with all/most of it. The one thing I would add is that sometimes it's also a good way to keep track of something you may or may not had. I (like many others) like to try new beers if I'm traveling so it's a good way to keep track if you couldn't get some reviews in.
  4. victory4me

    victory4me Zealot (547) Oct 16, 2004 Pennsylvania

    My biggest problem with hads is that there have been many changes since they were originally implemented. When they wer first implement you could only choose a letter grade: A, B, C, D, or F. I completed a few hundred hads that first week they were implemented. Then the formula changed and everything I scored an "A" was automatically changed to a "5". I didn't look at this as a problem until hads started impacting the overall scores of beers.

    Now on almost every beer, they are getting 5 scores from that first few weeks of implementation, which means almost every beer on this site has an artificially inflated score. I try to update scores as I see them, but until every user who recorded a had prior to the date of the initial change goes in and updates the scores, the overall scores of all beers will be inflated.

    This is an unfortunate problem.
    corby112 likes this.
  5. victory4me

    victory4me Zealot (547) Oct 16, 2004 Pennsylvania

    That being said, I like the concept of hads and enjoy using them and have no problem with them calculating into the review scores. Some of my favorite reviewers on this site are able to keep things descriptive, but brief. Some of the 10 paragraph reviews I see make me cringe.
    Bear1964 likes this.
  6. ridglens

    ridglens Initiate (0) Jan 10, 2010 Indiana

    i get that they switched from a personal use thing to "counting", so that stinks a little. but i think now they they are generally used (i hope, anyway) as just quick reviews, there won't be a problem...

    "I completed a few hundred hads that first week they were implemented."... that's pretty crazy... maybe just because by the time i caught on they "counted", but i still only do a "had" rating while i'm drinking a beer. there are hundreds of beers i've had but didn't rate, but won't based soley on memory, i'll jsut wait untill i've "had" them again!
  7. Ri0

    Ri0 Poo-Bah (2,474) Jul 1, 2012 Wisconsin
    Beer Trader

    I personally hate trying to describe what I am drinking in words. I am an analytic person and can mentally figure out how a beer should score in my head. I know that it doesn't help others, but I respect my the scores I give each beer I drink.
    Some BAs truly have a talent for describing the beers they drink and I look to their reviews before I consider buying beer, but there are many poor reviews I have to skip over to get to the good ones.
  8. krl2112

    krl2112 Crusader (732) Nov 10, 2012 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    I totally agree with you on this. I am a proponent of any additional info I can get on brews I have not enjoyed yet. Listen, we all don't have an immense amount of time to write or read the reviews and I look at the overall rating as a quick reference if I am at a store and want to try something unfamilar. Any additional info for me is good to a degree. Of course there will always be others who disagree.
  9. robwestcott

    robwestcott Meyvn (1,090) Nov 3, 2008 Indiana
    Beer Trader

    +1 for hads.

    bigger +1 for the NFL Network. there's always football on.
  10. NiceTaps

    NiceTaps Savant (979) Nov 21, 2011 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    Good post and topic. I'm on board with the 'hads', in fact I had no issue at all until today, when I came across this BA: CountryRock2001. Check out his 'hads' and you'll know my drift. It's a minor exception, not the rule.

    I believe that my reviews can easily become repetitive as well, but I give my best effort and attention to keep them fresh.

    By judging each beer that I review on its own merit, hopefully that avoids manipulation and competition ( A vs B ) from beer to beer review of similar offerings. Like you said, it's not always practical to take notes.

    Another good point the OP hit on; a review can certainly be thought out without being written out. The 'hads' review allows just that, and why not?

    Bash? Hardly, you've tackled this topic wisely. Hopefully, I've done the same.

  11. ridglens

    ridglens Initiate (0) Jan 10, 2010 Indiana

    fair enough, though today i found it acceptable to watch the OSU buckeyes finally beat a good basketball team!
    Photekut and zimm421 like this.
  12. beergoot

    beergoot Poo-Bah (3,282) Oct 11, 2010 Colorado
    Supporter Subscriber Beer Trader

    I look at 'hads' as a roughly accurate evaluation of a beer, useful in those times like the OP mentions when the main purpose of having the beer is more of a social thing or any other occasion where devoting time to fully evaluate a brew isn't appropriate. A 'review' allows you to more precisely describe a particular beer's qualities and attributes when you are in the right frame of mind and are setup to focus on and devote time to writing up a more detailed viewpoint of a beer.

    My WAG is that most of us would find our 'had' and full 'review' of any particular beer relatively close to the same number when it comes down to it.
  13. tstigz

    tstigz Initiate (0) Dec 6, 2010 Illinois

    I agree 100% with the OP. I've been a member for a while and I have never posted a review. I don't think that I can add anything to the reviews that hasn't already been said. Yeah, the IPA has a bitter finish. Great addition. I didn't even know that the "had" option even existed. Now I'm off to rate some more of my favorite beers as I poop.
    Ri0 likes this.
  14. barleywinefiend

    barleywinefiend Initiate (0) Nov 22, 2007 Washington

    Hads should die a slow, painful death.
    yemenmocha likes this.
  15. 2beerdogs

    2beerdogs Poo-Bah (1,883) Jan 31, 2005 California
    Supporter Subscriber Beer Trader

    I ike them too. But now that I've thought about it. Maybe a "HAD" option without assigning a number. I don't want to check off a beer that I tried, in a style that I'm not too partial too, and bias the average down. For example, I'm not a big sour fan, so when I put my number in, it's basically useless for those who love to pucker up for beer.

    When I write a review in a style that I'm not huge on, I state so upfront. I just thought this could be nice for us who want to use BA to check off a beer (or TICK, as some of you are fond of), just to keep track.
    Beerandraiderfan likes this.
  16. victory4me

    victory4me Zealot (547) Oct 16, 2004 Pennsylvania

    Keep in mind that at the time it was a simple rating process and didn't count toward anything, so giving something a score based on memory wasn't a big deal at the time. Although I guess it's even more justification as to why they shouldn't be counted in the overall scores
  17. NWer

    NWer Crusader (714) Mar 10, 2009 Washington
    Beer Trader

    I like the hads feature. Now I don't have to come up with meaningless words just to fill the minimum requirement just to tic it off. What reviews I do make are well thought out to the best of my ability.
  18. firstlighthiker

    firstlighthiker Initiate (0) Dec 26, 2012 Tennessee

    New to craft beer, but trying hard to catch up. I use the "hads" for a personal rating system and am glad BA provides this framework for relative evaluations. Should my opinions bias others? Of course not. But this is a good way for me to sort tastings out.
  19. tstigz

    tstigz Initiate (0) Dec 6, 2010 Illinois

    I like the idea of Hads. I like the number rating. I don't think it should be on the page for the beer. I like seeing written reviews there. I think it would be cool if the Had information was only shown on the Beers section of a users profile.
  20. ridglens

    ridglens Initiate (0) Jan 10, 2010 Indiana

    i definitely get the desire for a system to just keep track of what you've had, but ratings can bring down/up a rating whether or not they are "hads" or full-on ratings!
  21. ridglens

    ridglens Initiate (0) Jan 10, 2010 Indiana

    mind if i ask why you think they shouldn't be included? (not trying to be an ass, just want to know the reasoning!)

    edit: Because just the written ratings come up until/unless you've "had" the beer, right?
  22. mudbug

    mudbug Defender (603) Mar 27, 2009 Oregon

    I have no problem with people using the hads to keep track of their beers, I have no problem with hads having an effect on any beers overall rating. What I don't care for is the hads cluttering up the recent beers list which used to be an enjoyable read. Hads have absolutely no value to the reader.
  23. Judgie

    Judgie Disciple (320) Nov 21, 2012 Indiana

    I just started using this site shortly before "hads" counted. I was excited about tracking the beers that I had tried. I was also obsessed with reading the reviews of beers that were available to me & seeking out those with favorable reviews. Now that "hads" count towards overall ratings, I hesitate to use the "Had" option as my opinion is little more that like/don't like. I guess I am one of those who would not join a club that would have me as a member.
  24. macrosmatic

    macrosmatic Poo-Bah (2,016) Mar 9, 2006 Florida
    Beer Trader

    Just unclick the box above the list of Hads & Reviews, and the Hads go away. I do wish there was a way to individually toggle a default value for each user, but that seems to be missing. Still, a minor inconvenience at most.
  25. mudbug

    mudbug Defender (603) Mar 27, 2009 Oregon

    Nope, that feature isn't available on the "Recent beer tastings and review page"
  26. tstigz

    tstigz Initiate (0) Dec 6, 2010 Illinois

    Because all the reviews are just numerical ratings now. I like reading reviews. I don't contribute to them myself, but I just like the idea of the written reviews showing up when searching a beer and the Hads showing up with a numerical rating in a users profile.
  27. macrosmatic

    macrosmatic Poo-Bah (2,016) Mar 9, 2006 Florida
    Beer Trader're absolutely right. I didn't read your post closely enough - I assumed you were talking about the Hads & Reviews on an individual beer page. I don't often look at the Recent Beers page. If I'm reading reviews & looking at ratings, it's generally b/c I'm interested in a specific beer. But I can see your point that the inclusion of Hads ruins the reading...

    I don't see why they couldn't put a toggle box on the Recent beers page as they have on the individual listings. I hope that gets rectified.
  28. tstigz

    tstigz Initiate (0) Dec 6, 2010 Illinois

    Oh...unclick Show Hads. That works haha.
    ridglens likes this.
  29. Beerandraiderfan

    Beerandraiderfan Initiate (0) Apr 14, 2009 Nevada

    I'm not a fan of hads.

    I'm extremely opposed to hads counting as much as a full review towards a beer's score.


    4 ratings. . . all "1"s with no reason why.

    The beers?
    Breakfast Stout, Hopslam, Lagunitas Sucks, Dale's Pale Ale . . . (i.e. world class beers)

    I rest my case.
    yemenmocha and flexabull like this.
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