A discussion about Art

Discussion in 'Trade Talk' started by mlhyatt, Oct 26, 2014.

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  1. mlhyatt

    mlhyatt Initiate (0) Jul 27, 2013 Georgia

    I'm trying very hard to understand the hype behind this beer. A barrel aged saison rated at 4.35 that honestly does not sound very appetizing. It's trading for cake sets, Db huna, and assassin among others. I understand that rarity has a play at this, but I have found that HF beers are slightly above mediocre. And this is no different. Someone please explain to me the hype behind this beer and why it trades so high. But I may never understand why lower quality beers trade higher than high quality beers.
     
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  2. Kramerbarthomer

    Kramerbarthomer Champion (849) Mar 22, 2012 Colorado
    Trader

    While I think generally that HF beers are very good, I agree here... I just don't understand the hype train on this one... I actually had this side-by-side with Arthur a few months back and I actually preferred the more reasonably priced and more readily available base beer, Arthur... but that's just one man's opinion
     
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  3. Stevedore

    Stevedore Poo-Bah (6,524) Nov 16, 2012 Oregon
    Society Trader

    Gotta have this bottle right now at this moment and be seen drinking it or have it on my cellar list. Otherwise nobody else in the beer community will take me seriously.

    /sarcasm
     
  4. ResIpsaLoquitur

    ResIpsaLoquitur Defender (622) Feb 28, 2010 New York
    Trader

    you had this a few months back? Interesting, because this batch of Art is not the same as the prior batches. Please share your time machine with me, my friend,, lol.
     
  5. drummermattie02

    drummermattie02 Initiate (0) May 10, 2009 Texas

    OP, weird assumption that this is a low quality beer, but setting that aside it sounds like you can save a lot of heartache -- and good beer -- by avoiding trading for HF beers in general, since you don't care for them. I think a lot of people go crazy for their stuff (e.g., I know many people who thought Sarrasin was more impressive than I did), and you're lucky to not be one of them.

    Personally, the last batch of Art when fresh was pretty awesome, so I'll be eager to see how this one is as well. I'm not sure a sample of the past batch (even ignoring the differences with current batch) from a couple months ago is really a good snapshot, considering that wine barrel saisons might be best consumed fresh[er]. But, like I said, if you don't see the hype, that's a good thing. You get to avoid trying Art and keep your good beers.
     
  6. Kramerbarthomer

    Kramerbarthomer Champion (849) Mar 22, 2012 Colorado
    Trader

    Safe to assume that I'm referring to a previous batch then, right?
     
  7. ResIpsaLoquitur

    ResIpsaLoquitur Defender (622) Feb 28, 2010 New York
    Trader

    Actually, no. No one who doesn't know the batches differ would know that. Right?
     
  8. HugeBulge

    HugeBulge Initiate (0) Dec 31, 2012 New York

    Yes, this was released on Wednesday.
     
  9. HugeBulge

    HugeBulge Initiate (0) Dec 31, 2012 New York

    You should have used the word rated instead of quality in your post and its always rarity that makes it trade so high. Bcbcs and db cake have the same 4.68, should they trade even?

    Your head is probably going to explode when Ann is released.
     
    #9 HugeBulge, Oct 26, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2014
  10. markgugs

    markgugs Initiate (0) Dec 20, 2006 New Jersey

    sorry, stopped reading there :stuck_out_tongue:
     
  11. mlhyatt

    mlhyatt Initiate (0) Jul 27, 2013 Georgia


    You're right i should have used rated, thanks for pointing that out. But rarity doesn't always have a play in its trade value, lots of FFF beers that have 500 or bottle counts don't trade very high. I think it mainly stems from Shaun Hill touching this beer. Everything he touches jumps in value regardless of actual goodness.

    Haha, based on your location i'm not surprised :wink:. I have given HF a fair shot to impress me, but they just didn't deliver for me. Don't get me wrong they are prerty decent beers but they weren't any better than i can get in the shelf wherever i go.
    That said i do want to try some BG&E, so anyone who wants to convince to like HF feel free to send me a bottle :slight_smile:
     
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  12. ResIpsaLoquitur

    ResIpsaLoquitur Defender (622) Feb 28, 2010 New York
    Trader

    Op has multiple db huna, assassin, mexican cakes for trade.

    Op is upset Art is trading 1:1 for his bottles.(actually trading above fwiw)

    I'm beginning to understand.
     
  13. fiedler84

    fiedler84 Aspirant (254) Dec 23, 2011 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    Probably safe to assume OP isn't big into Saisons. HFS makes some of the best Saisons and IPA's.
     
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  14. mlhyatt

    mlhyatt Initiate (0) Jul 27, 2013 Georgia

    Haha, it could trade for parabola and I would pass it up.

    I enjoy a good saison, just completed a trade for stenciled pages. Just don't understand the hype on this one.
     
    space_guy9 likes this.
  15. bahnfire

    bahnfire Initiate (0) Jan 17, 2011 Vermont

    Haha, I'd love to have access to whatever magical store you do. Comments like this make it impossible to take you seriously.
     
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  16. mlhyatt

    mlhyatt Initiate (0) Jul 27, 2013 Georgia

    Coming from someone who lives in Vermont. It's just a matter of personal preference, that's all. I would drink gose, ten fidy, jai alai, sucks and other shelf over HF. Maybe i just haven't the one beer that will change my mind about HF.

    I understand i'm in the minority when it comes to HF beers.
     
  17. HugeBulge

    HugeBulge Initiate (0) Dec 31, 2012 New York

    I made a bunch of trades for jai alai before we got distro in ny but it doesn't really compare to HF ipa's. It just looks like your trolling with your comments.
     
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  18. thegoon55

    thegoon55 Initiate (0) Oct 27, 2012 Massachusetts

    only thing im going to say is :confused::astonished::confused: I think your pallet may be broken.
     
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  19. Respirologist

    Respirologist Initiate (174) Feb 26, 2013 Massachusetts
    Trader

    HF makes the best beer I've ever tasted. Your palate is busted brah. Please hit reset button.
     
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  20. markgugs

    markgugs Initiate (0) Dec 20, 2006 New Jersey

    c'mon man lol

    that's not the minority, it's an island of one (my NJ location has nothing to do with my feelings on HF - you make it sound like I can just hop on up to Greensboro Bend, VT any ol' day)
     
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  21. nrs207

    nrs207 Defender (660) Sep 8, 2011 Pennsylvania

    1. HF makes arguably the best saisons of any brewery. Some people don't think so, but it's fairly widespread they're at or near the top.
    2. Art hasn't been produced in 2.5 years.
    3. This batch of Art was in barrels much longer than previous batches from everything I know/have found out from the source, so 4.35 probably isn't a number you can go off of.
    4. Shaun's saisons have gotten better, especially Arthur since the last batch in 2012 imo.
    5. It's a limit 1 $40 bottle.

    Hope that helps :slight_smile:
     
  22. yourefragile

    yourefragile Initiate (0) Dec 16, 2006 District of Columbia

    Part of confusion with the hype is from there being previous releases of Art, no? Horrifically generalizing things, think of first two batches of Art more like E in "rarity", "hype", yield, etc (all normalized for time and general residual level of HF desirability in the world, naturally).

    Then pretend this batch of Art is actually called Art Select or Cuvee de Art (i.e. different means of production, lower limit, higher price, passage of time, death and decay) and is intangibly more like Ann or Mimosa, than a previous batch of Art.

    QED, ZOMG GIVE ME ALL YOUR MEXICAN PIES FOR THIS BOTTLE
     
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  23. Respirologist

    Respirologist Initiate (174) Feb 26, 2013 Massachusetts
    Trader

    Also to add to this. Art is a blend of 1, 2 and 3 years of Art. So this isn't Arthur aged for a 12 months in wine barrels. This is a blend of Art barrels from 1 -3 years which blows my mind. Kinda like an " Art Gueze ".
     
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  24. Respirologist

    Respirologist Initiate (174) Feb 26, 2013 Massachusetts
    Trader

    People won't bat an eye at paying $40 DDG, $40 Vertias 014, $50 BVDL, $18 Beat (375), $40-$50 Hommage, $40 Chocolate Rain etc. etc. So why complain about $40 Art?
     
  25. yourefragile

    yourefragile Initiate (0) Dec 16, 2006 District of Columbia

    Hey you! Stop that! This is BeerAdvocate! (Don't you know?) Your "logic" and your "reason" are not welcome round these parts.
     
  26. nrs207

    nrs207 Defender (660) Sep 8, 2011 Pennsylvania

    I heard a rumor of that, but didn't know for sure. Sounds like it should be awesome.
     
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  27. 4DAloveofSTOUT

    4DAloveofSTOUT Poo-Bah (3,434) Nov 28, 2008 Illinois
    Society Trader

    Ummmm....thats like your personal opinion. It is all subjective. I absolutely love most, if not all the HF offerings that I have tasted. If its not your thing that don't trade for it. I think that most HF bottles are hard to trade for and for a specific reason...sean is one of the most technical brewers that is in the craft beer scene and most of the time it is worth what it takes to get HF bottles. good times had by all... Cheers!
     
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  28. 4DAloveofSTOUT

    4DAloveofSTOUT Poo-Bah (3,434) Nov 28, 2008 Illinois
    Society Trader

    I will confirm the rumor even though I haven't heard it yet...
     
  29. drummermattie02

    drummermattie02 Initiate (0) May 10, 2009 Texas

    Of course I agree with this completely, this seems more like one of those cases where someone wouldn't dream of trading objectively similar beers for the beer they're interested in trying. Of course I could be wrong, but why else post a thread lamenting the high trade value of a beer from a brewer you generally dislike?
     
  30. JavaNoire

    JavaNoire Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2010 Iowa

    Someone I trade with who lives in California thinks that HF saisons are simply the best. He also thinks it will be a couple of years before SARA saisons will compare in quality. The lucky devil drinks tons of both. In a very real sense beer is his living. He's both knowledgeable & objective about it. And yet...and yet, his sentiments are wildly inconsistent with his location. How can this be reconciled??? Surely ALL opinions are rooted in geography & favor local stuff regardless of how mediocre it might be. Clearly he's either insane or stupid.





    sighhhhh...off to quaff some world class, much envied Millstream brews. Praise Yahweh Iowa gets Millstream & NOT the likes of HF (or SARA)
     
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  31. JavaNoire

    JavaNoire Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2010 Iowa

    Do let me know when you're gonna just hop up there. I'm sure I can come up with a grocery list or 2. (Food=Restaurants. Shopping=beer)
     
  32. Respirologist

    Respirologist Initiate (174) Feb 26, 2013 Massachusetts
    Trader

    If location had alot to do with reppin' hometown brews and how good they are I'd be praising Nightshift and Blue Lobster ...... Everyones palate is different. But when the standard has been set (HF Saisons) you cannot argue quality.
     
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  33. breadwinner

    breadwinner Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2014 California

    Sidestepping the HF reputation debate...I don't think it's overly cynical to point out that, in the same way that something like DB Huna benefits from checking off all the hype boxes (Cigar City? Ding! Low bottle counts? Ding! Barrel-Aged? Ding! In two barrels? Ding, ding! Imperial Stout? Ding! With Spices? Ding!), Art does the same. Hill Farmstead? Ding! Low bottle counts? Ding! Barrel-aged? Ding! Saison? Ding! Multiple blends? Ding! The apparition of a Hill Farmstead "gueuze" style beer? Ding!

    I gather the OP is distressed by Art's lower rating, compared to the likes of DB Huna, but this is essentially a different beer than previous iterations (so the ratings get thrown out the window) and when you combine that with checking off all the hype boxes above, it's not hard to see why it's trading as so.
     
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  34. Resuin

    Resuin Meyvn (1,342) Jun 18, 2012 Massachusetts
    Trader

    To answer the OP's question: the latest batch of Art is a completely different beer, and looking at "ratings" of past versions is just looking at ratings for a different beer. Some of this batch of Art was in barrels when the previous batch was released. This latest batch should probably be listed as a new beer, but I'm not sure if it will be. I could see how people who think this is the same as previous Art's would be confused, but this is a new beast entirely.
     
  35. Kurmaraja

    Kurmaraja Poo-Bah (2,817) May 21, 2013 California
    Society Trader

    Just throwing out there an observation: the highest Saison on the Top 250 beers list Fermier at 112, rated 4.37 (though, to be fair, when you look at the "total" rating it's 4.57). Sarrasin and Fermier share that top rank for saisons. 12 of the top 50 saisons are HF or HF related. There are 10+ IPAs / DIPAs rated higher than ANY saison. Zombie Dust is rated higher than ANY saison. 2 of the Mexican Cake variants are rated higher than ANY saison and a third, Tequila, is "better" than all but 3 saisons.

    There may just be a little bit of a style rating discrepancy going on here. ;-)

    Even at the "low" rating that the previous editions received this is still the 17th highest rated saison. Period.

    Guess what the 17th highest rated Double / Imperial Stout is? Bzar Beans by Firestone Walker ... a single barrel rarity. And this sits above stuff like BA beer geek vanilla shake, BA Sump Kyoto, Hunahpoopoo, Rum BA Caffe Americano, CFH, Siberian Black Magic Apple Brandy, etc.

    Take off the style biases and it's super clear why an HF saison rarity would trade high.
     
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  36. zookerman182

    zookerman182 Initiate (0) Oct 8, 2013 Alabama

    Wax top DING DING DING!!!
     
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  37. LopeJuice

    LopeJuice Initiate (180) Aug 23, 2012 New York
    Trader

    I think you are putting a little too much weight on beer ratings. If you've tried a lot of the new flavor of the month 100/100 instawhales you realize how they don't mean anything at all really...
     
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  38. pisano

    pisano Zealot (555) Sep 18, 2007 Massachusetts
    Trader

    I agree with this given how different this batch is from the previous 2. The ratings should be separated out as a new beer listing.
     
  39. Respirologist

    Respirologist Initiate (174) Feb 26, 2013 Massachusetts
    Trader

    I agree with that, but I disagree at the same time. What are we gonna do have seperate listing for Art b1 Art b2 Art b3 ? BCBCS uses different coffee every year should we have seperate listings for that as well? I think we should just have a note under the beer much like Black Tuesday where it lists the different ABV

    2009: 19.5% ABV
    2010: 18.2% ABV
    2011: 18.3% ABV
    2012: 19.2% ABV
    2013: 18.9% ABV

    For Art just update it with Different info for each batch. Its sometimes difficult to do with Art since we dont know ABV or bottle count. But we can include the description of a blend 1-3 years. Art is Art. Maybe because its the best of the best it shouldve been named Art Cuvee ?
     
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  40. pisano

    pisano Zealot (555) Sep 18, 2007 Massachusetts
    Trader

    You've got a good point here. I suppose this is best left up to the brewer. If he's calling it Art, then so be it.
     
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