AB InBev wins court decision regarding corn syrup

Discussion in 'Beer News & Releases' started by Scottsbeer, May 1, 2020.

  1. Scottsbeer

    Scottsbeer Zealot (550) Nov 3, 2017 Florida
    Trader

    https://www.mynews13.com/fl/orlando...wins-latest-round-of-beer-wars-against-molson

    MADISON, Wis. (AP) — A federal appeals court on Friday struck down a lower court's ruling in favor of brewing giant Molson Coors, determining that Anheuser-Busch can advertise and use packaging implying that its rival beers contain corn syrup.

    The order from a three-judge panel on the 7th U.S. Court of Appeals overturns a federal judge's ruling from September in Wisconsin. The judge had ordered Anheuser-Busch, which makes Bud Light, to stop making the corn syrup claims about Miller Lite and other Molson Coors products.

    “If Molson Coors does not like the sneering tone of Anheuser-Busch’s ads, it can mock Bud Light in return,” the appeals court ruled. “Litigation should not be a substitute for competition in the market.”
     
  2. donspublic

    donspublic Poo-Bah (1,843) Aug 4, 2014 Texas
    Society Trader

    I hope cooler heads prevail on this. I record 90% of what I watch so I don't see commercials that much, but when watching sporting events I am really not looking forward to seeing these two rip each others throat open. On the other hand, nothing like a good shitshow
     
  3. Skeeter17

    Skeeter17 Aspirant (235) Dec 13, 2016 Washington
    Society Trader

    I agree. I think it will be interesting to see who puts on a more tasteful shitshow.

    Surely the marketing people at Molson Coors are going to want to take this ruling to the extreme, how could they not?
     
  4. MNAle

    MNAle Poo-Bah (1,795) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota
    Society

    I like these judges! (Nothing to do with the parties, but with the statement itself!)

    We need more judges with this philosophy.
     
  5. dukeandduke

    dukeandduke Meyvn (1,349) Feb 2, 2015 Illinois
    Society Trader

    Molson Coors, Putting the Gay Back in Litigation.

    (A tip of the cap to one of the all time best Larry Sanders shows).
     
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  6. jesskidden

    jesskidden Poo-Bah (1,989) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Trader

    If Molson Coors want to get to the bottom of AB "implying" and "making claims" about their use of corn syrup, they should go after the company that posted this info on its website.
    [​IMG]
     
  7. BJB13

    BJB13 Defender (699) Feb 18, 2017 Maryland
    Society

    Hilarious! (except for taxing our judicial system)
    I wonder how many AB products use corn syrup. :joy:
     
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  8. Scrapss

    Scrapss Savant (971) Nov 15, 2008 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Damn right.

    ...And another waste of time spent again.
     
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  9. dukeandduke

    dukeandduke Meyvn (1,349) Feb 2, 2015 Illinois
    Society Trader

    [​IMG]

    A majority of their swill contains corn syrup.

    Corn Syrup (Dextrose)
    Batch 19
    Blue Moon Honey Wheat
    Blue Moon Honey Wheat 3.2%
    Blue Moon LightSky
    Coors Banquet
    Coors Banquet 3.2%
    Coors Light
    Coors Light 3.2%
    Henry's Hard Soda Hard Cherry Cola
    Henry’s Hard Soda Hard Cherry Cola 3.2%
    Henry's Hard Soda Hard Ginger Ale
    Henry’s Hard Soda Hard Ginger Ale 3.2%
    Henry's Hard Soda Hard Grape
    Henry's Hard Soda Hard Grape 3.2%
    Henry's Hard Soda Hard Lemon Lime
    Henry's Hard Soda Hard Orange
    Henry's Hard Soda Hard Orange 3.2%
    Henry's Hard Sparkling Blueberry Lemon
    Henry's Hard Sparkling Lemon Lime
    Henry's Hard Sparkling Passion Fruit
    Henry's Hard Sparkling Passion Fruit 3.2%
    Henry's Hard Sparkling Peach Mango
    Henry's Hard Sparkling Pineapple
    Henry's Hard Sparkling Strawberry Kiwi
    Hop Valley Cryo Stash
    Keystone Ice
    Keystone Light
    Keystone Light 3.2%
    Keystone Premium
    Keystone V9
    Leinenkugel's Light
    Leine Spritzen Raspberry Lemon
    Leine Spritzen Pineapple Strawberry
    Miller High Life Light
    Miller Lite
    Miller Lite 3.2%
    Miller64
    Milwaukee's Best Ice
    Milwaukee's Best Ice 3.2%
    Milwaukee's Best Light
    Milwaukee's Best Light 3.2%
    Molson Canadian 67
    Redd’s Apple Ale 3.2%
    Redd's Black Cherry 3.2%
    Redd's Blueberry Ale
    Redd’s Blueberry Ale 3.2%
    Redd's Cranberry Ale
    Redd's Hard Apple
    Redd's Hard Apple Black Cherry
    Redd's Hard Apple Peach
    Redd's Hard Apple Strawberry
    Redd's Peach Ale 3.2%
    Redd's Pineapple
    Redd's Pineapple 3.2%
    Redd's Wicked Apple
    Redd's Wicked Black Cherry
    Redd's Wicked Lemonade
    Redd's Wicked Sour Apple
    Redd's Wicked Strawberry Kiwi
    Redd's Wicked Watermelon
    Saint Archer Gold
    Saint Archer Mexican Lager
    Sparks
    Sparks Blackberry
    Steel Reserve BLK Berry
    Steel Reserve Hard Pineapple
    Steel Reserve Spiked Blue Razz
    Steel Reserve Spiked Punch
    Steel Reserve Spiked Strawberry Burst
    Steel Reserve Spiked Tropic Storm
    Steel Reserve Spiked Watermelon
    Steel Reserve Triple Export 8.1%

    Corn Syrup (Maltose)
    Blue Moon Cappuccino Oatmeal Stout
    Blue Moon Cappuccino Oatmeal Stout 3.2%
    Blue Moon Iced Coffee Blonde
    George Killian's Irish Red
    Hamm's
    Hamm's 3.2%
    Hamm's Special Light
    Henry Weinhard's Blue Boar
    Henry Weinhard's Private Reserve
    Jake’s City Brew
    Leinenkugel's Berry Shandy
    Leinenkugel's Berry Shandy 3.2%
    Leinenkugel's Berry Weiss
    Leinenkugel's Canoe Paddle Kölsch
    Leinenkugel's Cherry Blonde Lager
    Leinenkugel's Cranberry Ginger Shandy
    Leinenkugel's Creamy Dark
    Leinenkugel's Grapefruit Shandy
    Leinenkugel’s Grapefruit Shandy 3.2%
    Leinenkugel's Harvest Patch Shandy
    Leinenkugel’s Harvest Patch Shandy 3.2%
    Leinenkugel's Honey Weiss
    Leinenkugel's Northwoods Lager
    Leinenkugel's Oktoberfest
    Leinenkugel's Orange Shandy
    Leinenkugel's Original
    Leinenkugel's Pomegranate Shandy
    Leinenkugel's Pomegranate Shandy 3.2%
    Leinenkugel's Red Lager
    Leinenkugel's Snowdrift Vanilla Porter
    Leinenkugel's Special Ale
    Leinenkugel's Summer Shandy
    Leinenkugel’s Summer Shandy 3.2%
    Leinenkugel's Sunset Wheat
    Miller Genuine Draft
    Miller Genuine Draft 3.2%
    Miller High Life
    Miller High Life 3.2%
    Milwaukee's Best
    Milwaukee's Best 3.2%
    Molson Canadian
    Molson Golden
    Molson Ice
    Molson XXX
    Old Vienna
    Sol
    Sol Chelada
    Zima 3.2%

    Corn Syrup (Dextrose & Maltose)
    Coors Non-Alcoholic
    Foster's
    Foster's 3.2%
    Foster's Premium Ale
    Icehouse
    Icehouse Edge
    Magnum
    Mickey's
    Mickey's Ice
    Olde English 800
    Olde English 800 3.2%
    Olde English 800 7.5%
    Olde English High Gravity 800
    Red Dog
    Sharp's
    Steel Reserve High Gravity
    Steel Reserve High Gravity 6.0
    Steel Reserve High Gravity 3.2%

    Ingredient list to come
    Arnold Palmer Spiked Half & Half
    Coors Edge

    [​IMG]
     
  10. jesskidden

    jesskidden Poo-Bah (1,989) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Trader

    Quite a few - they even list them at thier website
    https://www.tapintoyourbeer.com/guide-our-beers
    (but AB has explained the ones that do are not their "premium" brands :rolling_eyes: but their popular-priced beers, malt liquors and FMBs).

    Hell, they used to manufacture the stuff - though not the type typically used in brewing.
    [​IMG]

    I always found it strange that no brewer ever challenged these two clauses written into the original FAA Act in the post-Repeal 1930s and still in effect:
    Now, OK, prohibit "false and untrue" statements (seems kinda tough, but...) but also "disparaging" statements about a competitor's products? Wow. Seems to violate both free speech* and some basic tenets of capitalism and advertising.:grin:
    The brewers seemed OK with the prohibition, even including the topic in their USBA's Brewing Industry Foundation's 1943 booklet, "The ABC of Beer Advertising".
    [​IMG]
    * It was the First Amendment which got the prohibition of listing ABV on beer labels suspended, thanks to the Coors' SCOTUS ruling.
     
  11. BJB13

    BJB13 Defender (699) Feb 18, 2017 Maryland
    Society

    I knew you would post some great information but I was not expecting a drum of Anheuser-Busch corn syrup!:open_mouth::open_mouth::rofl::joy::rofl:
     
  12. dukeandduke

    dukeandduke Meyvn (1,349) Feb 2, 2015 Illinois
    Society Trader

    Better record than Molson Coors, but damning with faint praise. Lots of corn and cane sugar.

    Best Damn offerings
    Bud Ice
    All Busch Variants (except NA)
    Hard & Simple
    Hoegaarden Soft Brew Citrus
    Hurricanes
    King Cobra
    Natty (and variants)
    Natural & Natural Light (Natural a misnomer)
    All of their Seltzers (except their new Bud Light Seltzers & Mahas) & their Ritas
    Redbridge
    Rolling Rock (wonder for how long this has been going on. Never liked this offering)
    Shock Top (Regular doesn't but several variants do)

    One thing I do like is the fact the products have their ingredients listed. I would like to see all beers required to list all ingredients, brewery location and abv on all packaging.

    Would also like brewers to add package date, though I skip those that don't beyond known seasonal or one off releases which I know the release date.
     
  13. MNAle

    MNAle Poo-Bah (1,795) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota
    Society

    So, you're OK with price increases from your local craft brewery to accommodate this? Once ABV is listed, it must be accurate within a relatively small range (IDK the range), but with small brewers, their batch to batch variation may make this difficult to achieve without a lab.

    But, I admit I'm talking though my hat here.

    @jesskidden - @honkey?
     
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  14. dukeandduke

    dukeandduke Meyvn (1,349) Feb 2, 2015 Illinois
    Society Trader

    Prices go up regardless, but if cost prohibitive to print on the lable, online is fine as well if they archive all beers (and a simple reference to the website.

    If they can quote within a reasonable percentage (95-99%) it would be helpful, would also like legal clarification as to what the true requirements are, and what range AB/Molson Coors/SABMiller uses.

    Also, lactose should always be disclosed, IMO, as should cake.
     
  15. Ten_SeventySix_Brewhouse

    Ten_SeventySix_Brewhouse Disciple (332) Jul 20, 2016 Indiana
    Society

    :joy: Agreed.
     
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  16. jesskidden

    jesskidden Poo-Bah (1,989) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Trader

    Yeah, that one has always been surprising for me, considering how common it is for people to be lactose-intolerate.
    Even if they exempt it as an allowable ingredient they should have made it a mandatory allergen listed on a label.
     
    #16 jesskidden, May 5, 2020
    Last edited: May 5, 2020
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  17. dukeandduke

    dukeandduke Meyvn (1,349) Feb 2, 2015 Illinois
    Society Trader

    Thanks for your detailed responses..

    Final question from a layperson. In practice, how egregious would this be for brewers to list ingredients on their website?

    To me, it would not be onerous to require brewers to list ingredients and ABV on their website and/or packaging (their choice) in a same manner as the Macro links quoted above.
     
  18. jesskidden

    jesskidden Poo-Bah (1,989) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Trader

    Well, someone's thought it egregious enough so that the proposal has been kicking around for nearly half a century.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  19. honkey

    honkey Zealot (589) Aug 28, 2010 Arizona
    Society Brewery Trader

    1. Enforcement of labeling laws is so stupid as it is that adding any more requirements to it would just be annoying and breweries will just continue to lie to you anyways. Recently we submitted a rauchbier for label approval. We were required to list the beer as "rauchbier ale" even though it's a lager and the TTB recognized that it didn't matter, we have to list it as an ale. In the description on the can though, it says that it's a classic German style lager... Guaranteed to confuse the shit out of people and will cause a headache with the inquiries we'll certainly get next week when the beer is released. Thanks government... You really want these people enforcing another law that won't help the consumer in any way and will cause an extra headache for the breweries?

    2.The majority of beers ingredient lists would just look like "Malted Barley, Hops, Water, Yeast." And yeast might not even be considered an ingredient if it's being filtered out anyways. Requiring the brewery to list the type of malt would be silly especially when maltsters are constantly changing their products anyways and recipes from many small breweries are constantly evolving to account for availability of ingredients or seasonal variation.

    3. I always assumed lactose was required so any beer I've ever brewed with it lists it as an ingredient. Somehow I never even thought to look into it.
     
  20. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Meyvn (1,309) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Society Trader

    I agree that adding more regulation from the feds on labels just seems like a recipe for disaster.

    That said, one surefire way to lose me as a customer is to put some weirs ass shit in a beer (this includes fruit juice and lactose) and not make that explicitly clear on the label.

    Edit to add; this is also why breweries like modern times and barebottle (who puts a 5 gallon home.brew clone recipe on every bottle/can) have my deepest respect and patronage. I value transparency and I think that the marketing advantage of it should be the driving force behind beer labeling
     
  21. jesskidden

    jesskidden Poo-Bah (1,989) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Trader

    What was their reasoning? The only difference in their legal definitions of "Ale" and "Lager" is fermentation temperature, and even that's vague ("comparatively high temperature") but they'd only know that if your beer required a formula approval, I guess?
    In the past, some states (notably Texas) divided ale and beer/lager by alcohol content, of course - resulting in the famous fine print "MALT LIQUOR IN TEXAS" and "ALE IN TEXAS" on some imports and craft lagers over 4% ABW.
     
  22. rgordon

    rgordon Meyvn (1,052) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina

    Bogging down invention with legal strategy is the loss of creativity. I hate Bud and Coors.
     
  23. thesherrybomber

    thesherrybomber Disciple (351) Jun 13, 2017 California
    Society Trader

    Even the Banquet?
     
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  24. dukeandduke

    dukeandduke Meyvn (1,349) Feb 2, 2015 Illinois
    Society Trader

    I appreciate these two responses. While I wasn't necessarily thinking of ATF involvement, but considering the ramifications, to me a better path toward transparency would be to encourage, either through state craft guilds or the brewers directly to list their ingredients online and/or on packaging. The current push to lower calorie "healthy" pours should also correlate to disclosure of ingredients.

    I believe the widespread use of lactose in beers is a recent development (the past several years). I believe brewers should disclose this for dietary and ethical (vegan) purposes.
     
  25. bbtkd

    bbtkd Poo-Bah (6,819) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
    Society Trader

    Interesting ruling. Would the judge rule similar in an assault case; OK to hit someone because they can hit you back?
     
  26. jesskidden

    jesskidden Poo-Bah (1,989) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Trader

    An assault is against the law. Is that really the equivalent of a competitor noting the use of an ingredient by a brewery in an ad, which the company itself opening indicates it uses on their own website?

    FYI - The ATF, now part of the DoJ, hasn't been in charge of regulating beer labels since the early 2000s.
    Well, "milk stouts" have been around since 1907, but weren't brewed in the US that I've even found before the "craft era" - tho' Mackeson was exported to the US for decades. Nor have I ever seen any reference to a pre-craft brewery using lactose for any beer but it was commonly used by homebrewers for both sweetening and added mouthfeel. In fact, funny story...
     
  27. bbtkd

    bbtkd Poo-Bah (6,819) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
    Society Trader

    I never said they were equivalent, just questioning the judge's logic.
     
  28. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Meyvn (1,309) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Society Trader

    The judges logic is probably that its not illegal to acknowledge another products ingredients, and that MC is welcome to deride ABI's use of corn syrup if they want to.
    That logic wouldn't be applied to an assault case since it isn't legal to just hit someone
     
  29. rodbeermunch

    rodbeermunch Poo-Bah (5,509) Sep 30, 2015 Nevada
    Society Trader

    Sure, similar to the matter here, if they were voluntary competitors in a ring. . . you would likely dismiss the assault charge.

    This line of thought smacks of why I have a quote on my desk for clients, their friends and family to read when they drop the ol' anecdotal hearsay case that resulted in a different outcome on me like a gotcha moment:

    "How come a different case, in a different place, with different facts, got a different result?"
     
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  30. MNAle

    MNAle Poo-Bah (1,795) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota
    Society

    Otherwise, half the NHL would be locked up! :grin:
     
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  31. rodbeermunch

    rodbeermunch Poo-Bah (5,509) Sep 30, 2015 Nevada
    Society Trader

    Kinda bored at work today.

    You just triggered me to go down a Bob Probert/Tie Domi rabbit hole of NHL youtube fights.

    Thank you for your service.
     
  32. MNAle

    MNAle Poo-Bah (1,795) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota
    Society

    Glad I could help! :grin:
     
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