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Discussion in 'Beer News' started by slatetupelo, Sep 21, 2012.
It's a delicate dance. My LHBS sells "Water distillers."
oh boy. another story for everyone to beat up on alabama over.
the other stores you listed don't have a liquor license (as far as i know), so they don't deal with the abc. hop city has/is seeking a liquor license (not sure which at this time), so they do have to deal with the abc. i guess it's hard for the abc to look the other way when they have to come in your store and do inspections and what not and the only thing in the store is a bunch of homebrewing supplies.
i'm furious about this, but i guess i understand why it happened. please support free the hops and right to brew in their effort to make homebrewing legal in the next legislative session.
for those saying the ABC was just doing it's job, were the guns really necesarry?
The barley might have made a suspicious move.
I sent this email to the state ABC enforcement division at this address:
Please allow me to register my displeasure and strong objection to your department's raid on Hop City in Birmingham. This makes our entire state and your department in particular look intolerant and heavy handed.
Surely you are aware that the craft beer community is not the same thing as pedestrian drunks. Individuals looking to simply become intoxicated will not have an interest in paying premium prices or in the consumption of home brewed beverages.
According to news reports you even confiscated books with the subject matter of home brewing. It is unthinkable that in the year 2012, that government agencies involve themselves in this type of forced censorship. You should be deeply ashamed of this action which is more befitting a totalitarian regime rather than modern age America.
It is my hope that you will reflect on the folly of this action and allow Mr. Torres to operate his business in the manner in which he intends. It is my belief that he is a good citizen that is providing a service desired by his customers. He chose to open a store in Alabama so his customers from this state did not have to continue driving to his Atlanta store. This only benefits our state as all revenues will be subject to state and local taxes.
Because of the football!!!
Carrying a gun is part of Alabaman culture
That's one way to get your brewing equipment on the cheap..
The more ridiculous the situation looks, the better. People need to be woken up so they can see how asinine this is. I wish they had rolled a tank up to the front door.
Bootlegging is illegal in many places. Guess that means it's illegal to sell potatoes.
"100 gallons of mead, whatever that is"
"When I have a cocktail, I drink Chivas Regal. Chivas Regal is stamped and approved by the government agency that says this is healthy. But you think I'll drink something that was made at somebody house? Man you gonna make everybody up here a wino!"
Hmmm, seems odd to me that the president of a country is allowed to homebrew, but a state can decide that it is illegal...
Why is that odd? States outlaw plenty of things that aren't federally prohibited. Unless there's a constitutionally protected right to a certain activity, it's fair game for state and local governments to ban. Sadly, while the 21st Amendment repealed the federal prohibition of alcohol, it did not establish an individual's right to imbibe.
Remember that homebrewing was illegal nation-wide until the Carter administration - and all Carter did was allow states to make up their own minds about the issue.
A better question is - if a Constitutional amendment was necessary to allow the feds the power to prohibit alcohol, where is the amendment granting them the power to prohibit marijuana and other drugs? Why aren't those issues left up to the states just like homebrewing is?
Good point there, didn't think about that. I agree, it is time to get this legalized. Though it might be tough to convince certain members, Quote from Rep. DuWayne Bridges (R-Valley)
“If we don’t stop now, there’s going to be—next it’s marijuana, and it isn’t going to be 60 gallons, it’s going to be 150 gallons or more.” He also suggested that this bill could allow for 120 million gallons of beer to be brewed annually. Bridges attempted to make brewing more than the allowed amount a felony. -from Weld, for Birmingham
Edit: here are a couple of good ones from Rep. Richard Baughn (R-Lynn)
“I was raised in a Christian home and I was taught that any form of alcohol is bad,”
“Anything I can do to kill alcohol, I’m going to do.”
The guns were absolutely not necessary. The owner included information about plans to sell home brew supplies in the application submitted to the ABC. This was something that could have been handled in writing.
“I was raised in a Christian home and I was taught that any form of alcohol is bad,”
“Anything I can do to kill alcohol, I’m going to do.”[/quote]
In other words; "my pappy n' momma told me al-kee-hol was bad, but I ain't really red tha Bible myself."
I live in AL. This isn't a tax issue. This is a case where religion acts as a coercive agent in stripping individual liberties from fellow citizens. If there is one evil in the south that opresses every single person living here, it's religion. This is the group that pretty much drives the ABC on matters things like this.
...and now the great religious debate begins....
Jesus made wine out of water..blah blah blah
Was a state law broken? Yes. End of story.
This whole debate reminds me of all the "medical marijuana" co-ops that got raided by federal DEA agents and cried foul. There's a hierarchy of laws...if a law is federally illegal, it overrides a state's law. A state law overrides county law, county law overrides city/town, etc etc etc...
On the other hand, a state/county/city can instate laws that are federally legal, but outlaw them in their jurisdiction. Ever hear of a dry county?
Hmmmm. No home brewing in AL or MS. Sounds like a remnant of the old South. The moonshine lobby is to blame.
When I think of lawmakers in Alabama, I pretty much picture Cathy Bates in The Waterboy. Alcohol is the devil! Homebrewing is the devil! Your fancy book learnins is the devil!
Enforcement agency leadership has to prioritize constantly then make enforcement decisions that will affect public support of their agency, which will ultimately affect legislative funding.
They made the decision to raid a store selling stuff you could put together yourself from home depot. I hope they get crucified by the public, but they probably won't because it's Alabama.
So government enforcing the laws that the people have asked for via their state legislatures is an example of govenrment showing people who's boss? I don't get it.
Much of the public down here gets pretty pissed when the "gub-mint" messes around in their lives...so maybe there'll be some form of backlash. Doubtful though.
Did anyone go to this website? freakin' awesome, here is a quick excerpt from their current issues section:
"[Officer] Thomas said it was definitely not just girls using the tampons to get drunk; he said that rectal beer bongs is another bizarre trend created under the same concept and is becoming as popular as beer bongs used at college drinking bashes. He said that is called "butt chugging."
Back on topic- I agree that if it against the law it is fair game but to me the Alabama law is not black and white as there are many other homebrew shops in AL. There has to be some grey area in there for the other stores to operate, so at best this is very selective enforcement.
I could fabricate all sorts of things from items found at Home Depot, but that doesn't mean they're legal.
I don't agree with the laws, but they are the laws. And until you can garnish enough support behind changing them, you have to play by them. I would like to walk around my property naked, but there are laws against that. So either I move to a nudist colony, or wear clothes. Nudist colonies scare the bejeezus out of me, so I choose to wear clothes.
In this case, I think it boils down to revenue. Look at the multiple agencies who are dedicated to the eradication of home distillers. They are losing incredibly large amounts of revenue from those that brew moonshine, brandy, and vodka in the middle of the woods. Same goes with beer. They can't collect from, or control the quantity they dont know exists.
Kind of a strange that you take that stance and have that avatar.
There's a whole 'nother world out there friend. I don't have to play by jack shit.
OMG...That audio debate.....my god these people are in charge?
They are barely coherent...
Is anyone in this thread actually from AL though? I mean, people must be homebrewing in AL, there was a raid so...
I'd like to hear from someone living there and how they feel about this.
This stance has evolved from nearly a lifetime of bucking the system. I've found it's easier and safer to play with sugar than dynamite. Until something comes along that drastically impacts my life, I will play nice.
All laws are selectively enforced because government agencies don't have the time nor resources to enforce everything. It's interesting to observe that, of all the problems the ABC agents have to worry about in Alabama, they chose to make this arrest.
Overbearing government agents using guns to confiscate supplies which have uses other than homebrewing is an example of government bureaucrats throwing their weight around. If there were concerns within the ABC, wouldn't it have been appropriate to have a meeting with the store owner prior to conducting a raid?
There's also the issue that others have brought up of these agents confiscating literature, which is a violation of the first amendment.
That really needs captions.
I wish I could say that I'm more surprised by the profoundly illogical nature of those rants, ignorance, or loose grip upon the English language.
Maybe a basic critical thinking test should be tacked on to the requirements for becoming a member of the legislature, at the very least.
One more reason I'm glad I don't live there anymore.
No arguments with anything that you just said whatsoever. However, in this situation, the people who allow the gov't to act in that fashion are more to blame than the gov't itself if you ask me.
You don't need to have completed grade school to become a politician and that clip proves it.
It was entered 1 minute before mine so no - I was typing my post. However, I still stand by the fact I'd be extremely surprised if he did not do the due diligence in making sure he'd be able to open this store.
I think Free the Hops is taking a supporting role on the homebrew issue at this point. I believe the group that is at the forefront currently is call "Right to Brew".
I doubt it really has anything to do with the minuscule amount of revenue they're losing (if any... every homebrewer I know still buys plenty of beer). Based on that audio clip, they are just unbelievably ignorant of the process and the reasons why people want to brew. They really believe that if you can make beer in your home, you and your children will walk around blind drunk for weeks at a time. They're past the point of even being educated on the topic. It's a sad reality that the people in charge of our welfare cannot be bothered to search Google for 5 minutes to learn something about the laws they make.
Based solely on the comments I heard on this audio clip, I suggest the average IQ of Alabama legislators is so low it cannot be accurately measured without equipment capable of measuring nanoIQ.
I had a slug problem in my garden, and I believe that every single one of the slugs in my garden had a higher intelligence quotient than any of the neanderthalic sub morons I heard on that clip.
ABC in virtually every state are sworn officers and they all pack...
Y'know all these insults to the people of Alabama are cute and all, but I'd be willing to put the ignorant of Alabama in a contest against the ignorant of any big city in the North, East or West and spot you a few points.
This is the result of both overbearing government bureaucrats (as I might have mentioned before) and too few people lobbying for the relaxation of beer laws. There are certainly plenty of other states in the deep South that have changed their laws in this regard, so it has nothing to do with being Southern.