Adam from the Wood bottle release at Hair of the Dog - Saturday June 6th

Discussion in 'Northwest' started by JouerAvecLeFeu, Jun 5, 2015.

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  1. oregonskibum

    oregonskibum Zealot (501) Mar 14, 2009 Oregon

    Both were flat on Wed when they first went on sale for onsite consumption. But who knows, maybe they've carbed up since then?
  2. w_klon

    w_klon Initiate (87) Aug 1, 2012 Oregon

    The issue is that these beers, in particular AftW, use to have some carb and weren't dead flat. The real problem, is that a couple years ago, Alan would say 'hey, I got this shit wrong. It's flat, it's only $8 because there's no carb.' Now, the tune has changed and he and his staff want to be smug and say 'its supposed to be that way'.

    Nobody would stop giving him shit for his flat beer, but I think people would be less upset and insulted if he didn't try to cover it up. 'Beer is more than bubbles.' Get the fuck outta here, Alan! Why you front? Gimme some carb or gimme a discount. You can keep lying to yourself, but don't lie to the people.
    rab53, Shmeal, wittyname and 5 others like this.
  3. m4ttj0nes

    m4ttj0nes Initiate (0) Feb 21, 2012 Oregon

    once the vintage bottles i actually enjoy are depleted from the menu, i'll probably never enter the hotd kingdom again.
  4. yeaprolly

    yeaprolly Zealot (521) Oct 10, 2011 Washington

    I have had both of this year's variants, and they are absolutely not "literally flat", like I found 2014 AFTW or Doggie Claws to be. Carb is present. There just isn't a whole lot of it. I don't understand why everybody is saying that these beers are flat. :astonished:
  5. Malefactor

    Malefactor Initiate (0) Sep 26, 2014 Oregon

    perhaps you got lucky, or maybe you are referring to how it was on draft. No body that was there with me could detect anything. And one of the varieties flat out says it has no carbonation. The other says it is light, but there is not even visible carbonation activity when you are pouring from bottle to glass.

    Flat as scan be.
    #45 Malefactor, Jun 8, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2015
  6. jpbebeau

    jpbebeau Aspirant (264) Sep 11, 2011 Washington

    I have also had the Rye version, poured from the bottle, in the taproom on Saturday. It was not dead flat. There were some bubbles.
    pkasten and yeaprolly like this.
  7. yeaprolly

    yeaprolly Zealot (521) Oct 10, 2011 Washington

    I'll be more specific. I had a pour from a bottle of the Bourbon variant at HoTD Saturday, and pours from bottles of both variants on Sunday. I saw bubbles when pouring from bottle to glass. Maybe there is a bit of bottle variation here.
    Sanderson likes this.
  8. derftron

    derftron Disciple (344) Feb 8, 2012 Oregon

    Tried both. Dead flat. I dont count seeing "a few bubbles" as carbonation. Hell, water out of the tap will produce a few bubbles.
    jbakajust1 and Brewzer1010 like this.
  9. SeaAle

    SeaAle Disciple (359) Jun 24, 2012 Oregon

    Maybe I'm getting used to flat HOTD beer, but I thought both were very tasty.
  10. yeaprolly

    yeaprolly Zealot (521) Oct 10, 2011 Washington

    A semi-vigorous pour out of the bottle of Rye AFTW that I had even yielded a thin head. Tap water won't do that. I also felt carbonation inside of my mouth.

    Maybe the bottles you tried were flat? Mine absolutely, most definitely, were not.
    Sanderson likes this.
  11. John_M

    John_M Poo-Bah (6,373) Oct 25, 2003 Oregon
    Moderator Society Trader

    I'll be stopping by on Friday. Is either beer on tap at the moment. Am more intrigued by the rye version, but wouldn't mind trying the regular AFTW as well.

    I know the regular version was on tap a couple weeks ago, but wasn't sure if that's still the case.
  12. SeaAle

    SeaAle Disciple (359) Jun 24, 2012 Oregon

    Both were only available in bottles when I stopped by on Saturday. Bourbon Little Dog is the current From the Wood selection.
  13. teddyarrowhead

    teddyarrowhead Aspirant (216) Oct 23, 2009 Oregon

    People can go back and forth all day about these being flat (or very minimally carbonated), what the issue is with this being the norm now, why it hasn't been corrected, etc., but the bottom line, for me personally, is that if these versions of AftW had been carbonated adequately like the 2011 version, I would have been one of the first in line to max out on bottles (and probably return the next day for more).

    As it stands now after having tried them, it's doubtful I'll be buying any unless regular traders specifically request them. I need bubbles in my beer. I pretty much drink it all, but carbonation is a minimum baseline requirement for my personal tastes. So as much I enjoy so many of HotD's offerings and will continue to support them through visiting the taproom for lunch fairly often for the seasonals, FTW taps, and bringing out of town visitors by to get into the great (carbonated) vintage bottles, I simply can't justify purchasing beer that I don't personally enjoy drinking.

    This whole state of affairs makes me sad, because when those barrel aged beers are fully-on (i.e. carbonated), they can be pretty much untouchable.
  14. kscaldef

    kscaldef Meyvn (1,189) Jun 11, 2010 Oregon

    Another thing that hasn't been mentioned is that I think these flat (no viable bottling yeast) bottles don't age the way that we hope for HOTD to. The flat 2011 Bourbon Fred bottles oxidized pretty fast. I've just taken to soda-streaming the flat bottles that I have, but given that they have basically no trade value and I don't expect them to last in my cellar, I'm not going to buy more than a few bottles. (And, honestly, I probably won't buy any of these to-go, since I already have more than enough flat HOTD in my cellar to keep sodastream in business for a while.)
    oregonskibum likes this.
  15. John_M

    John_M Poo-Bah (6,373) Oct 25, 2003 Oregon
    Moderator Society Trader

    Unfortunately, this is a very good point. I was hopeful that perhaps over time a bit of carbonation would develop in the most recent bottles of AFTW, or in the alternative, they would at least age well and pick up some interesting characteristics over time. My impression was that I was SOL on both counts.

    I still enjoyed my flat bottles of AFTW, but not enough to justify the (still) rather steep price tag. Teddyarrowhead speaks for me as well I'm afraid. I'll continue to visit the tasting room to sample beers on tap and to purchase select vintage bottles off the menu, but I can't see myself buying any more bottles of flat barrel aged beer from HOTD (other than for trading partners who specifically ask for them).
    #55 John_M, Jun 9, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2015
  16. draheim

    draheim Poo-Bah (2,430) Sep 18, 2010 Washington

    A couple of you have mentioned still being willing to trade flat bottles to trading partners even if you won't buy them for yourselves. Sorry if this is a dumb question, the answer's probably obvious. But would you inform them ahead of time what to expect in terms of carbonation? I can just see this issue as something that could potentially burn good trading relationships if too many assumptions are made about what the other party knows/doesn't know etc. Would be a shame if people were trading for the carbonated AFTW of old and got a flat mess that's likely to oxidize quickly.

    The carbonation issue also raises an important point in my mind in terms of what the label says. I believe most HOTD bottles say "bottle conditioned" and make a detailed point of explaining that they are likely to develop and improve with age. It sounds like this might be patently false with these uncarbonated versions. Truth in advertising is a real thing, enforced by the Federal Trade Commission. So I guess if I were Alan, I might not be quite so lackadaisical about how I handled this matter.
    beertunes likes this.
  17. John_M

    John_M Poo-Bah (6,373) Oct 25, 2003 Oregon
    Moderator Society Trader

    In my experience, anyone who's willing to pay these sort of prices for HOTD beer, and then a considerable shipping fee to get the beer home, has done their homework and knows all about the "flatness issue." They typically want my impression as well (assuming I've tried the beer in question), whether I think the beer is still good and worth the money despite the flatness... but I've never traded with anyone who wasn't well aware of what's going on at HOTD, and the "problems" they have with carbing certain beers.

    Have a friend in Baltimore who wants a 6 pack of both beers. I bought previous flat vintages for him, so he knows what to expect, but wants the beers anyway. Shrug. Some folks clearly enjoy even flat versions of AFTW and CAFTW.

    To answer your question though, assuming it sounded as if they weren't aware that the beers were flat, then of course I would tell them. Why wouldn't I?
    beertunes and draheim like this.
  18. draheim

    draheim Poo-Bah (2,430) Sep 18, 2010 Washington

    Right, I wasn't suggesting you (or anyone on here) would deliberately deceive someone, more just a case of you potentially assuming your partner is well aware of the issue, and your partner assuming that you'd advise him if there was a potential issue. Bad things can happen when people make assumptions rather than communicate clearly. And since trading relationships are built more than anything on trust (and since I don't trade almost at all), I was just curious if there's some unwritten code that all parties observe.
  19. teddyarrowhead

    teddyarrowhead Aspirant (216) Oct 23, 2009 Oregon

    Oh, I definitely inform regular traders about the carbonation situation. They certainly wouldn't be regulars in the first place without maintaining an honest relationship about what's going back and forth. Like @John_M, said, plenty of people seem to like them with little/no carb.

    Regarding your labeling question, recent versions (including these) specifically say that there is either no carbonation or light carbonation (I forget the exact wording) on the side along with the description and tasting notes. I'm not sure how/if that conflicts with saying "bottle conditioned" on the front of the same label regarding any potential truth in advertising issues, but that is an interesting point.
  20. vurt

    vurt Meyvn (1,040) Apr 11, 2004 Oregon

    From the label of 2015 CAftW (my unsolicited commentary in italics):

    Hair of the Dog
    Brewing Company
    bottle conditioned beers

    (Not guaranteeing any carbonation, but IF you find some, it comes from yeast in the bottle. A lack of carbonation is proof that we do not force carb! Therefore, this beer is bottle conditioned. QED.)
    which improve
    with age.

    (Some do. This one might not.)
    The other side of the label makes it clear: "This beer has no carbonation."
  21. derftron

    derftron Disciple (344) Feb 8, 2012 Oregon

    "We do not force carb! " - So?

    can somebody on here who knows something about brewing explain to me what is so horrible about force carbonation?
  22. kscaldef

    kscaldef Meyvn (1,189) Jun 11, 2010 Oregon

    Absolutely. I sent all my regulars a message saying "Are you interested in these? Unfortunately it sounds like they are flat but if you still want any let me know and I'll grab them."
    draheim likes this.
  23. kscaldef

    kscaldef Meyvn (1,189) Jun 11, 2010 Oregon

    Well, flipping it around, the plus of bottle conditioning is that the beers tend to age better (some combination of oxygen scavenging plus ongoing biological processes).

    Some people claim you get a different "quality" of carbonation depending on whether you force carb or depending on the type of priming sugar you use, but I'm pretty skeptical about that sort of thing. (FWIW, you also hear people say this about force-carbonated sparking wines vs methode champenoise.) My sense is that dissolved CO2 is dissolved CO2, no matter where it came from, and the differences in mouthfeel, bubble size, etc are due to other differences in the liquids.
    jbakajust1 and chinochino like this.
  24. oregonskibum

    oregonskibum Zealot (501) Mar 14, 2009 Oregon

    There's nothing wrong with forced carbonation. It's a reliable method for getting a consistent level of carbonation in a beer and is used widely by breweries of all sizes, from stove top home brewers to the macro producers.
    beertunes likes this.
  25. Sanderson

    Sanderson Initiate (0) Sep 5, 2014 Washington

    He and I split rye and bourbon (thanks for the pours) and both bottles had "light" carbonation as any old ale should. I felt the rye had a tad bit more carbonation. I thought the rye was pretty solid IMO. It's a shame inconsistencies exist but if you get a "lightly" carbonated bourbon or rye then you're in for a treat.
    yeaprolly likes this.
  26. John_M

    John_M Poo-Bah (6,373) Oct 25, 2003 Oregon
    Moderator Society Trader

    +1 to this. Tried both bottled versions thursday night. Carb was light, but appropriate for the style. The light carb gave the beers a very full mouthfeel I thought, which I really liked. I thought the carb level was very similar in both bottles. I enjoyed both beers bery much, but preferred the bourbon. Would not hesitate to order these beers again.

    So... given that both these beers are clearly NOT flat, I asked wendy what the dealwas with the new label... the one that warns customers that these beers are not carbonated. She didnt know either, but acknowledged that the bottles she had gotten, certainly appeared to be carbed.
    Sanderson likes this.
  27. BoodyBeer

    BoodyBeer Initiate (32) May 28, 2005 Massachusetts

    In case you're curious what a growler of the AftW would go for - last night Market of Choice had a HotD growler of the stuff available for a mere 106 bucks. They also have bottles of both that and Cherry Adam for 12$ a piece I think....
    Sanderson likes this.
  28. zestd

    zestd Disciple (334) Jan 18, 2013 Idaho seems between product variations and labelling...HOTD doesn't seem to know what they're doing?
  29. John_M

    John_M Poo-Bah (6,373) Oct 25, 2003 Oregon
    Moderator Society Trader

    The gf and I were speculating that perhaps this was as's idea of a joke. His sense of humor does seem a bit, ahem, odd at times.
    Sanderson, zestd and beertunes like this.
  30. oregonskibum

    oregonskibum Zealot (501) Mar 14, 2009 Oregon

    Now I'm going to have to go back and try another bottle. On the on-premise release day, the bottles were flat. Really no other word for it. Not soft carbonation, not a faint head that dissipated quickly, not a few bubbles, etc. Just flat. I wish I had grabbed a photo now. But I am curious if they were released too early? Perhaps they hadn't had any time to condition between going into bottle and sale? If bottles are now pouring with a little carbonation, it would change my opinion on buying some.
  31. anteater

    anteater Champion (807) Sep 10, 2012 Oregon

    Just opened a Rye Adam from the Wood. Small hiss taking the cap off, but even an aggressive pour gave no more than a few bubbles which amounted to no head at all. Flat. Tastes great though! I don't regret buying a bottle at all but I'm hoping to have it on tap instead.
  32. JouerAvecLeFeu

    JouerAvecLeFeu Defender (600) Apr 17, 2015 Washington

    Just picked up two bottles of the Rye barrel version from the brewery... They don't appear to be flat. There's some evidence of carbonation in there.

  33. vurt

    vurt Meyvn (1,040) Apr 11, 2004 Oregon

    Enjoying a bottle of the bourbon version at HotD now. It poured flat and looks flat in the glass, but there is a tiny amount of carbonation on the tongue. The flavor is marvelous.
  34. guajolote

    guajolote Aspirant (290) Sep 12, 2008 Oregon

    The West Linn MofC had AftW bottles for $17.99 when I was there on Saturday. I didn't buy any.
  35. vurt

    vurt Meyvn (1,040) Apr 11, 2004 Oregon

    I wouldn't buy any for that price either.
  36. fsck

    fsck Initiate (0) Apr 13, 2013 Washington

    Nothing at all. Bottle conditioning can be an advantage for brett beers which will continue to develop character for a long time, but I don't know anyone who seeks out bottle conditioned clean beer. It seems like Alan just thinks he is better for using traditional methods.
  37. adkieffer

    adkieffer Aspirant (291) Nov 23, 2010 Washington

    Plenty of bottle conditioned clean beer with lots of carb. Lack of care or ambition at this point. They still tatse great but at that price I have SO many other options. Too much quality beer out there these days. If I had a voting share heads would role.
  38. RedMedicine

    RedMedicine Initiate (106) Jun 3, 2005 Oregon

    Will be curious to hear what happens when you open them. I've been fooled by these phantom bubbles before.
    jbakajust1 likes this.
  39. t4h2c0

    t4h2c0 Initiate (85) Jun 5, 2007 Washington

    undercarbonated but the rye version is tasting great IMO
    CaptainQ likes this.
  40. Stevedore

    Stevedore Poo-Bah (5,193) Nov 16, 2012 Wisconsin

    Do they still have these at the brewery? Will be visiting PDX in a week.
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