American Made Marzens

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by keithmurray, Jul 25, 2020.

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  1. Thankin_Hank

    Thankin_Hank Poo-Bah (1,993) Nov 18, 2013 Texas
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    Collecting Samples for the Festival. Got a special one from the local Rahr and Sons.
     
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  2. 1009

    1009 Zealot (523) Jan 20, 2019 Massachusetts
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    Looking for some Fest Beers for the season. I know the style can be flooded by a zillion brands, so want to know which are worth it from the community.

    Thanks,

    1009
     
  3. infuturity

    infuturity Initiate (102) Apr 26, 2015 Massachusetts

    Being from Massachusetts, and not being aware of your location, I HIGHLY recommend taking a trip to Barewolf Brewing in Amesbury and checking out their Marzen Retrograde. Best American-made Oktoberfest I've had.
     
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  4. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (3,569) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
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    I just had my third can (over 3 days) of a very local Oktoberfestbier, Crystal Lake Brewing from the far northwest suburbs of Chicago.

    A really nice take on the style -- probably the best Ami Wiesn I've had in a while. Herbal hops and crackery-bready malts with a crisp, clean finish.
     
  5. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Poo-Bah (1,941) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
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    Well technically any beer not brewed by one of the Munich Six for the Oktoberfest festival shouldn’t call their beer an Oktoberfest with a “k”. If they do, it should say, “Oktoberfest-style”.

    But no one really follows that. Except Bells and Sam Adams apparently (off the top of my head).
     
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  6. jonphisher

    jonphisher Meyvn (1,387) Aug 9, 2015 New Jersey
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    You learn something new every day on here...that’s an interesting detail that I’ve never known of noticed.
     
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  7. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (3,569) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
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    I'm not sure spelling (or letter usage) has anything to do with that, just the word itself -- but English spelling might be a loophole.
     
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  8. MNAle

    MNAle Poo-Bah (2,412) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota
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    Well, if Erdinger can ignore that for marketing their wheat beer in the USA, I guess it only matters in Germany.

    [​IMG]



    I don't believe Erdinger labels the beer that way in Germany (based only on their web site, so IDK actually).

    And, Ayinger might be skating close to the line, too (but they do make it two words):

    [​IMG]

    And, again, based on their web site, they do not market this beer in Germany (at least by that name).

    Besides, I thought the reserved name was Oktoberfestbier (one word).
     
    #288 MNAle, Sep 14, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
  9. Jacobier10

    Jacobier10 Poo-Bah (2,558) Feb 23, 2004 New Jersey
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    And Jack's Abby, oddly enough.
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Poo-Bah (1,941) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
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    Hmm, yeah you both could be right. I don’t have a source for what I posted, I just thought I’d either read it here or elsewhere.

    My implication was that you couldn’t use it in Germany, and that you weren’t “supposed” to use it here either, but no one really observes that. Similar to Kölsch and Cologne.
     
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  11. zid

    zid Poo-Bah (1,776) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    This is just an assumption but I'd bet that the American brewers who are calling their beers "Octoberfests" with a "C" are not mainly doing so out of respect to conventions in Germany, but rather, are doing so because it's the American spelling of October and they figured it would be more accessible for their audience. If the German convention even mattered to them AND they saw this spelling as being respectful, it was probably just an added benefit in their eyes. No offense to Boston Beer Company, but it's not hard to imagine that they were probably caring more about America than Germany when it came to naming their product. Keep in mind that most of the popular beers that use this spelling are from many years ago... when (I'm assuming) there were fewer "Oktoberfests" (with a "K") on the market. (Jack's Abby is the exception in that it's from the past decade.)

    I think it's also a safe assumption to make that the non-Munich German brewers who use the term are only doing so for export product (be it for beers that are only made for export or beers that are also sold on their home turf). Some German brewers seem to show a certain degree of caution and/or respect rather than being all or nothing. I believe Weihenstephaner Festbier used to be called Oktoberfestbier over here. Ayinger's clever wordplay is stating that their beer is a Festbier-Märzen with the added "Oktober" being a suggestive element.
     
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  12. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Poo-Bah (1,941) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
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    https://thefullpint.com/beer-reviews/reviewed-samuel-adams-octoberfest/

    I knew I didn't make it up on my own, "the full pint" repeats this legend, and recently too, as this article is from last year.

    They are also respectful by naming the beer “OctoberFest” with a “c” rather than a “k” because the word is a protected appellation for beer produced at large breweries within the Munich city limits. However, that protection does not apply outside of Germany (or maybe the EU), so American brewers are free to call them “Oktoberfest.”
     
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  13. zid

    zid Poo-Bah (1,776) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    If I'm reading it right, that's just coming from the person reviewing the beer, not BBC. I don't put any stock in it on its own. Even if BBC stated something similar, I'm not sure if I'd buy into it. I certainly don't take all claims from brewers about their products as gospel. I don't even make an exception for BBC. :wink: Of course, I'm making a total assumption and it could be dead wrong... but I find that I'm usually wrong about things only 24 hours a day.
     
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  14. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Poo-Bah (1,941) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
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    Oh yeah I completely agree. I just posted it more to prove to myself I wasn't making things up out of thin air, and that I had read it SOMEWHERE over the years.

    I didn't post that link to prove this as fact.
     
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  15. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (3,569) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
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    I guess I just like disrespectful breweries better. :grin:
     
  16. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Poo-Bah (1,941) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
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    The only way an American brewery can disrespect an Oktoberfest is to add too much caramel malt.
     
  17. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (3,569) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
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    I'd say, add *any* caramel malt! :slight_smile:
     
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  18. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Poo-Bah (1,903) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
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  19. MNAle

    MNAle Poo-Bah (2,412) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota
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  20. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Poo-Bah (1,903) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
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    Saw that one too.

    Explains how Ayinger can use their label.

    Oktoberfestbier is for the Munich big 6, verboten for everyone else.
     
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  21. pjbear05

    pjbear05 Initiate (138) May 28, 2008 Florida

    Went into my local watering hole, Patrick asks "the usual?" I scan the tapper lineup and see SA Octoberfest. I tell Patrick " a short one of Octoberfest" which he gives me. I taste malt and sweetness, and barely anything else. Patrick must have seen me visibly recoil and says "OK, let me get you a Yeung." Blecch! Time to go Marzen hunting.
     
  22. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Poo-Bah (1,941) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
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    I was originally going to post that, but I figured someone would chime in that they've had a great example that uses caramel malts...so I took the high road. :grin:

    Does that mean breweries outside of Munich can use the word "Oktoberfest" as long as the word "bier" isn't with it?
     
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  23. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (3,569) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
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    So, hedging is the high road? Switching to that career in politics, I see. :grin::wink:
     
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  24. MNAle

    MNAle Poo-Bah (2,412) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota
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    Well, it at least means that only the Munich 6 can label a beer "Oktoberfestbier" in Germany.

    Beyond that, IDK.

    But given that (AFAIK) no brewery other than the 6 even label a beer intended for the domestic German market just "Oktoberfest", there is at least some kind of pressure to stop them from doing so (perhaps as simple as customer negative reaction).
     
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  25. dennisthreeninefiveone

    dennisthreeninefiveone Initiate (156) Aug 11, 2020 New Jersey
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    I’m lucky the local brew pub (Trap Rock) brews an excellent Marzen called Hathor Red Lager year round. More than worth trying if you are in the area.
     
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  26. ichorNet

    ichorNet Poo-Bah (2,095) Mar 16, 2010 Massachusetts
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    My most recent New Beer Sunday (err... New Beer Weekend, sorry... old habits dying extremely hard :wink: ) entry is a review for Queen City Oktoberfest. These guys are well-regarded for their older-world styles, so I had high expectations.

    Happy to say it is worth a look. Should've gotten a few more cans!
     
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  27. herrburgess

    herrburgess Meyvn (1,167) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina

    hey. i had planned to do a dampfbier, but the timing with tank space at our host brewery didn't work out. so we actually ended up doing a steinbier. another local brewer gathered some blue granite (and had a tank free), so we got a grain bill together that wasn't all that different from what I was planning for the dampfbier and heated some stones to 1200F or so and used then to get the brew boiling. pretty cool, I have to admit. tasting good so far...using the ayinger strain for that more-immediate maltiness it kicks out. we'll see....
     
  28. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Poo-Bah (1,903) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
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    The only Steinbier I've sampled was brewed for a presentation at HomebrewCon. Annie Johnson was the "head brewer" and presenter. It was a club brew, many people were needed to hear and get the rocks moved into the boil. I've seen some use a forklift to move the rocks on a commercial scale.
     
  29. herrburgess

    herrburgess Meyvn (1,167) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina

    we used a forklift and a metal mesh basket to move them into place for heating. it was a smaller system, so we couldn't submerge the whole basket into the brew kettle. instead we added the rocks using tongs; as they showed in the old rauchenfels steinbier logo. was super cool to see them hiss and sizzle as the sugars caramelized onto them.
     
  30. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (3,569) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
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    I dunno, fork lifts - rocks - beer - all kinda' incites bad memories. :wink:
     
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  31. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Poo-Bah (1,941) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
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    I prefer to call them STONES, not rocks.

    Ah crap, probably gonna get sued now.
     
  32. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Poo-Bah (1,903) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
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    Stein = stone
    Felsen = Rock

    So Steinbier works for me.
     
  33. nc41

    nc41 Poo-Bah (2,771) Sep 25, 2008 North Carolina
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    I agree.
     
  34. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (3,569) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
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    Wait'll I tell Boulder what you're up to. :wink:
     
  35. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (3,569) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
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    Now *you're* gonna get sued! :grin:
     
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  36. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Poo-Bah (1,903) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
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    Only if they have a US trade mark for Steinbier, or Stein.
     
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  37. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (3,569) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
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    But you already translated it for them -- they're gonna be on your tail! :wink:
     
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  38. tzieser

    tzieser Meyvn (1,200) Nov 21, 2006 New Jersey
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    I gotta say: this years batch(es) of Copper Legend just hits all the right spots for me. I've always loved this beer and I know they've always been relatively consistent....but for whatever reason this beer has been my jam this Autumn.

    Plus the 12 pack format doesn't hurt. Hope they do the same with Red Tape this winter
     
  39. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (5,613) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    I had this year's Copper Legend (first time I had this beer) and I really enjoyed it. Almost as good as Sly Fox Oktoberfest for my palate.

    For your palate what distinguished this year's Copper Legend from past years? What was the 'change'?

    Cheers!
     
  40. TongoRad

    TongoRad Poo-Bah (2,994) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
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    I also found Zero Gravity to be up there this year, perhaps even better than Copper Legend.
     
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