Any ideas on how to stop lame boxes from showing up? Lame BIF box list?

Discussion in 'Beer Trading Talk' started by readbaron, Dec 14, 2012.

  1. oteixeira

    oteixeira Initiate (175) Aug 20, 2012 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    Sadly, for us well meaning good folks, there is not FB since it seams to be a secret group or some such. No worries, I am sure there is plenty here I can do.
    StarRaptor likes this.
  2. TWStandley

    TWStandley Crusader (738) Jan 15, 2008 Massachusetts
    Beer Trader

    I think people are being to greedy and ungrateful - thats what is ruining the BIF game.

    Sure - if you clearly don't follow the rules of the BIF then yeah, thats an issue (unless justified ie. more beer instead of shirt, etc.). Though I think many people have adopted the mentality that they should be receiving whales and all wants. I find that my favorite part of participating in a BIF is getting beers I don't have regular access to (locals, etc.), putting together boxes that highlight your geographic area and favorites (i.e. great locals, etc), and hitting a few wants (more than a few if possible). I also enjoy trying to figure out who is sending to who, etc.

    Obviously people are from different locations with different access, so there is obviously going to be a disparity in perceived value between boxes. Do your best - thats all.
    oteixeira likes this.
  3. NJOssie

    NJOssie Aspirant (210) Feb 28, 2012 New Jersey

    yeah, I also don't care for people who are just "letdown" by boxes... we've dealt with that and surely will again... I for one am still happy to partake in BIF's... it's just cases like this particular one

    like Gonzo stated above, it was such a disregard for even meeting minimums that it Mike (NJBeerNerd) to make it right for someone and it wasn't even his job to do so.. that's the type of BA's I like to associate with
  4. SirWilliam

    SirWilliam Initiate (0) Apr 9, 2012 California

    I hope Brendan will reply to this thread with some feedback because if all the earlier posts are true that is a shame. He was my target in this years Secret Santa BIF (still currently running). The minimum oz. is 144 oz. I sent him 3 boxes with just over 350oz. I hit numerous wants according to his profile. I would have been stoked to receive what I had sent as that is the whole idea, IMO. Candidly, it was a bit annoying that I had to ask him to post a picture of the haul as I was a Provisional shipper in this BIF. Hopefully, he was just busy with life. Anyways, never too late to get things back on track and crush your next target...
    pschul4, Auror, Pelican5 and 5 others like this.
  5. oteixeira

    oteixeira Initiate (175) Aug 20, 2012 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    In response to this, if you look at his latest posts, I am pretty sure he is currently in 4-5 BIFs all at the same time. That would make anyone that was putting together good boxes pretty darn busy. That being said, the first thing I wanted to do when I opened my box was show everyone how great it was.

  6. cfh64

    cfh64 Defender (602) Aug 16, 2005 Texas
    Supporter Beer Trader

  7. oteixeira

    oteixeira Initiate (175) Aug 20, 2012 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    cfh64 likes this.
  8. cfh64

    cfh64 Defender (602) Aug 16, 2005 Texas
    Supporter Beer Trader

    That's exactly what I was thinking. As far as our Secret Santa goes, I hope you're wrong but it wouldn't surprise me if you're not. If his box is "that" bad I'll be sending my own box out to the poor recipient.
    TWStandley and oteixeira like this.
  9. oteixeira

    oteixeira Initiate (175) Aug 20, 2012 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    I actually already asked who the recipient was and there address, but was asked to wait until the box landed.
    cfh64 likes this.
  10. JebediahScooter

    JebediahScooter Initiate (0) Sep 5, 2010 Vermont

    This has been interesting. Anybody know if dude is aware of this thread yet? I feel like somebody involved should send it to him if it already hasn't happened.
    oteixeira and cfh64 like this.
  11. cfh64

    cfh64 Defender (602) Aug 16, 2005 Texas
    Supporter Beer Trader

    That's very generous of you but I agree with waiting. Based on what I've seen I don't have my hopes up but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and wait to see what he sent.
    oteixeira likes this.
  12. Auror

    Auror Defender (642) Jan 1, 2010 Massachusetts
    Beer Trader

    According to this, he's the captain of Team Florida in the newest round of the Gang Bang too...
  13. cfh64

    cfh64 Defender (602) Aug 16, 2005 Texas
    Supporter Beer Trader

    Lol, this just keeps getting better. I feel like we're on "Candid BA". I really hope he brings it for the Secret Santa.
    franklinn, Pelican5 and NJOssie like this.
  14. NJOssie

    NJOssie Aspirant (210) Feb 28, 2012 New Jersey

    for the target I hope so... but until he speaks up and makes good on past BIF's.. I think my reputation of him will not change
    oteixeira and cfh64 like this.
  15. cosmicevan

    cosmicevan Poo-Bah (3,331) Dec 13, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    should be now.
    ncaudle, franklinn, Photekut and 5 others like this.
  16. NJOssie

    NJOssie Aspirant (210) Feb 28, 2012 New Jersey

    well done sir
  17. pschul4

    pschul4 Zealot (562) Jan 7, 2011 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Why would he post anything? He clearly knows what beers are sought after and is choosing not to send them.
    Duff27 and ehammond1 like this.
  18. xnicknj

    xnicknj Initiate (0) May 25, 2009 Pennsylvania

    if possible, the organizers of these other BIFs he's involved in should take action and remove him before anyone else receives another one of these shit boxes. it's pretty clear he's doing this on purpose.
    cosmicevan, ASUBeer and pschul4 like this.
  19. iadler

    iadler Initiate (0) Aug 12, 2009 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    It's one thing to send a crappy box, but meet the requirements. It's another to send a crappy box and not even meet the requirements of the BIF.

    It's not that time consuming to do a bit of research on your target (where they come from, what breweries they have access to, what styles they like, what they have been posting on the ISOs recently). If you participate in a BIF, put some effort in customizing a box for your target specifically rather than just throwing a bunch of random beer you don't want. Also, I always ask myself, would I be stoked receiving this box? If not, I don't send that shit and reconsider my box. End rant.
    Duff27, NJOssie, cfh64 and 1 other person like this.
  20. Jtc2811

    Jtc2811 Aspirant (235) Dec 13, 2011 California
    Beer Trader

    People are wising up, thankfully. He got kicked from the dueces wild BIF because of this thread. Thanks for the warning, all!
  21. Tnudish

    Tnudish Initiate (0) Feb 16, 2012 Wisconsin

    Nothing worse than a BIF box that appears to have no effort whatsoever put into it. There is a reason these are called "Beer It FORWARD's", and that seems to be getting lost on people more and more that participate in these.
    FishPondManager likes this.
  22. Bad_Trader

    Bad_Trader Initiate (0) Nov 8, 2012 Namibia

    This thread has me excited to join my first BIF.
  23. FEUO

    FEUO Disciple (327) Jul 24, 2012 Ontario (Canada)

    Sounds like whale entitlement.
  24. RedBeeron

    RedBeeron Initiate (0) Jul 7, 2012 California
    Beer Trader

    I heard someone had a few beers and decided to get all vigilante on that BiF.

    No idea who though :wink:
  25. slaphappysnark

    slaphappysnark Initiate (0) Mar 9, 2011 California
    Beer Trader

    Fortunately, that's a team BIF and he has some excellent teammates--I don't think I have personally dealt with any of them in the past, but I've seen what they can do. I'm sure they will at least make up for any shortfalls from him and hopefully they will also bring him up to speed on BIFs, even if it's a bit late in the game.

    In general, there will always be a range of boxes in a BIF, and I think it's important to be a gracious recipient in addition to being a thoughtful sender. Sometimes as a sender you luck into a target whose wants list you can easily destroy, or you happen to have recently obtained some desirable beers right in their wheelhouse, and sometimes you find yourself with a target for whom you need to be a lot more creative, with a cellar and reviews/hads that make you drool (personally, my two best BIF experiences as sender each fell into one of those categories). It's important to be aware of this as a recipient and to recognize the thought and effort that went into a box rather than just considering its trading value. Again, if a box doesn't actually meet the requirements of the BIF (which I personally think merits an addition to the bad trader list), or if it's full old IPAs, beers in styles that the recipient hates or beers the recipient can grab off the shelf, then obviously thought and effort did not go into the box, and that's different. I hate to see terrible boxes, but I'd also hate to see newer folks scared off of BIFs by a concern that they won't be up to snuff no matter how hard they try.
  26. NJOssie

    NJOssie Aspirant (210) Feb 28, 2012 New Jersey

    that has been taken care of... at least symbolically it sends a message... and as slaphappy stated, we are comfortable with his teammates and new captain, some real good BA's will handle accordingly
    Hands22 likes this.
  27. Johnnyramirez

    Johnnyramirez Initiate (0) Nov 17, 2012 California

    His latest activity shows he's read the thread. Whether he acknowledges it now is yet to be seen.
  28. BigGene

    BigGene Initiate (0) Oct 30, 2010 Florida

    I am starting to believe that his under performance in the BIF was intentional. If he has not come to this thread to comment/defend himself/or take responsibility he must know what he did was wrong. We all know he is aware of this thread.
  29. DSlim71

    DSlim71 Initiate (0) Mar 3, 2010 New Jersey

    This x100. If you put thought into the box, your target will appreciate it. I know I would. And even without sending whales or hitting wants, you can tell when someone put in some thought to see what you like and try to find things to send. That's a lot different than running to the store to grab 150 oz of beer to meet the requirement, throwing it in a box, and sending it off. I've been lucky enough to get solid boxes in the few BIFs I've been in so far, and I'll continue to do them because I enjoy sending a good box just as much as receiving one. I can't speak to the sender in question, it's even possible he's sending to me in Secret Santa, but it seems like he's just putting out the minimum, if not less, just hoping to get better boxes in return.
    NJOssie and cfh64 like this.
  30. brendan4532

    brendan4532 Initiate (126) Aug 11, 2011 Florida
    Beer Trader

    For everyone waiting to here my reply. I participate in these things because I truly enjoy craft beer. So much so, I quit a job to start working for a distributor. I have never sent a box out that I would be disappointed to receive. I have only been doing these things for 8 months or so. I unfortunately do not have hoards of big beers sitting around to include in these boxes. To speak about specifics I have rectified boxes in which I was informed I screwed up on. The movie BIF, that was my first non-noob bif. The sour/funk/ bif, I am in contact with the moderator and I unfortunately am having to trade to get bottles to send. I dont have the luxury of having access to amazing selections like the rest of you. I spend my hard earned money purchasing items to include in the boxes that I send out. I apologize to anyone that has been disappointed with what they have received from me. I will say that not one person has contacted me personally on this site regarding a box I have sent them. I get to find out their disappointment by reading this forum. I have no problem whatsoever addressing a situation that is brought to my attention. But I do have an issue with not saying anything to me about it, then publicly posting something that I had no idea was issue. I am a very reasonable and level headed individual. I understand that most of you have great beers to include and share with people across the country. I try to do the same thing. It is very hard to know what people have access to and what people dont. For example, yes The Bruery distributes to Florida. And it says that on every distribution site such as seekabrew and the google docs that are out there. However, my city is about 250 miles from the closest place that The Bruery distributes to. I do believe firmly in righting a wrong. If anyone has an issue with me or anything I have sent to think, I ask you contact me about it. I have every intention of fixing what I have done wrong. As far as replying to this thread. I had no idea this thread was even created until a BA friend alerted me about it. So again, I do apologize to anyone I have offended.
  31. brendan4532

    brendan4532 Initiate (126) Aug 11, 2011 Florida
    Beer Trader

    Absolutely man. I really dont want anybody to think I am some asshole trying to get a leg up. I do not want anybody to think I am a deadbeat. I do believe that every person I have traded with on my list would say that I sent exactly what I say I'm sending. I just want any issues folks have with me to be resolved. Any issues can certainly be worked out in a civil manner. Like I said above. I am a very reasonable person and I am not quick to speak. Yeah, I was shocked to see some of the things being said, and I want to make good on things that people have been let down on. So for anyone reading this, I intend on righting what has been done. Thanks for understanding.
  32. cosmicevan

    cosmicevan Poo-Bah (3,331) Dec 13, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    right on. thanks for clarifying.

    that being said, there were some examples provided where you didn't even meet the minimum requirements. also this recent trade post definitely lists a bunch of great beers that just about anyone outside of FL would be pumped to get in a box. the one comment/suggestion i have for you or anyone thinking of signing up for a BIF where you don't have the "big beers" that the BIF requires or that you think would make someone happy, then abstain from getting involved in that BIF. there are plenty of NBOs that are looking just for locals or run your own BIF and set the requirements to ensure that you can send a killer box.
    2beerdogs, davey101, cavedave and 3 others like this.
  33. brendan4532

    brendan4532 Initiate (126) Aug 11, 2011 Florida
    Beer Trader

    I appreciate the feedback. I will honestly make sure from this point on that anything I participate in will not fall in to any of the categories listed in this thread. I just hope there is an opporunity moving forward to ensure that.
    libbey, huadog, pschul4 and 2 others like this.
  34. brendan4532

    brendan4532 Initiate (126) Aug 11, 2011 Florida
    Beer Trader

    I would like to ask a question. In in a BIF you happen to receive a certain beer and you already have that certain beer, would it be uncool to send that same beer to your target if it happens to be on their wants list? Would that be frowned upon?
  35. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Crusader (719) Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    Way to face the angry mob - it's the only way to stop the momentum on these kinds of threads... This thread raised some great points, and you raised some great ones too.

    The nature of BIFs really does end up being very subjective. Having done a lot of BIFs though, I just want to suggest two things for you (and everyone newer to the scene):

    1 - Pay more attention to the rules. Every BIF has a set of rules, and by joining you agree to those rules. If you don't think you can hit the rules for whatever reason, then just pass on the BIF and wait for the next one, as there are plenty of them. Hell, you can start your own if you're itching for it. For example, I generally avoid growler and sour BIFs because I know I don't live in a great area for compiling an impressive box of either.

    2 - It's not the whale-ishness of the box that matters, it's the thought that counts. Not everybody has equal access, but everybody can find something, or get creative. I don't need wants, or crazy rarities, or a giant box that was swimming in oak - those are all awesome, but ultimately I just like to see that somebody put some effort in. Brand new breweries, a local growler, a nice Belgian bottle that I may have overlooked, "shelf whales", etc, etc. Maybe you "give a little" from your private stash, or trade for something to put into a BIF. Honestly, you seem like you don't live that far from Cigar City. You could probably put together a killer and well appreciated box every time with almost nothing but CC beers...

    Cheers, and I hope you do take a little bit (but not too much) of this thread to heart.
  36. DSlim71

    DSlim71 Initiate (0) Mar 3, 2010 New Jersey

    I appreciate responding to this matter and would like to apologize for some of the comments about trying to get over on people if that's not the case. I wasn't in the last round of the sour, saison, and funk BIF but I did participate in the first one. It's not an easy BIF to be in since you have to send highly rated beers and a good amount of them. The box that you sent was brought to my attention because one of my friends was involved in that exchange. I understand if you are trying your best, but unfortunately if your best fails to meet the criteria, that's not an excuse. It looks like your joining a lot of BIFs just to join rather thank taking the time and making sure you can fulfill what is asked of you. And that's the bottom line. I haven't joined the last 2 just because I didn't think I had the ammo. Sometimes you have to take a pass rather than just jumping at every chance.

    Also, from your only hint in Secret Santa, I could be your target and I'd love nothing more than for you to prove me wrong and drop an awesome box on me, I just felt the Sour BIF box was unacceptable. You mentioned you've never received any bad feedback, but the haul post from that thread mentioned they were not pleased with the box. Also someone thought they should "make up for it" by sending an additional box to that person. It was clear that box was not received well.
  37. cfh64

    cfh64 Defender (602) Aug 16, 2005 Texas
    Supporter Beer Trader

    I mentioned this exact same thing to OP in a private BM and was satisfied with his honesty and ignorance (no offense OP, I mean that in sincere way) of how other people would view it. I appreciate his response to myself and this thread. I honestly think he's a good guy, will make things right, and will get "better".
  38. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Crusader (719) Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    You'll get varying opinions on this. Some will care, some won't. I personally don't have a huge problem with it, though it might sting a little if it was something I went way out of my way to get for them. But stuff like KBS or BCBS, for example, get sent and received so much that I don't see where anyone could get upset over that. i.e. meaning that I might drink the BCBS somebody sent me, then 6 months later stumble across a 4-pack, buy it, and send a bottle out to somebody else in another BIF.

    IMO the nice gesture is to just ask your BIF sender, especially if it was a recent BIF where they are apt to stumble across it.
  39. mizzouguy

    mizzouguy Aspirant (238) Aug 24, 2010 Missouri
    Beer Trader

    There seems to be a few things going on in this thread, a pointed issue with brendan4532, and an issue at large with bad BIF boxes. I have something to say about both.

    First, I was the target of Brendan in the Barrel Aged BIF and received his box this week so it is fresh. He delivered what I would call a solid box. Nothing life changing, but a box that I think most would be happy to receive. A few beers that we get locally, but ones that are limited and pricey (Parabola & Sucaba). Not a many wants, but all beers I would drink happily. Does this excuse him not hitting the minimum requirements of other BIFs? No, but he has put together boxes that should be known. In all honesty, I would have loved to have received a box with Leon, BA sweet stout and other limited CCB beers, but I was happy with his box.

    Secondly, I think that many of the problems with BIFs are that expectations are too high. Too many people have wants list that are full of Moby Dicks, and BIFs aren't the place to look for whales. I think that you should go into a BIF hoping to get good beers, but if your sender hits all wants or sends you a whale, that is the exception, not the rule. That being said, I've seen a fair about of boxes that suck, straight up. You should send great beers, and that is how I go about putting my boxes together, but if it isn't a wale BIF the hype or rarity of the beer shouldn't be the only judgement of the box. If you want walez, fish in the ISO:FT forum.
    Good_Trader, Crabbicuss and Rempo like this.
  40. Pelican5

    Pelican5 Initiate (0) Feb 4, 2012 California
    Beer Trader

    Dont think there are any typical remedies or actions. I sent an anonymous box to a guy who got hosed in a BIF I was in awhile back to help ease the pain and balance things out a bit. I think this happens often and behind the scenes. Still, its no excuse for someone to flail and send a lame box, it's not the responsibility of other BA's to cover for their lack of respect.
    adamdd and match1112 like this.
  • About Us

    Founded in 1996, BeerAdvocate (BA) is your go-to resource for beer powered by an independent community of enthusiasts and professionals dedicated to supporting and promoting better beer.

    Learn More
  • Our Community

    Comprised of consumers and industry professionals, many of whom started as members of this site, our community is one of the oldest, largest, and most respected beer communities online.
  • Our Events

    Since 2003 we've hosted over 60 world-class beer festivals to bring awareness to independent brewers and educate attendees.
  • Our Magazine

    Support uncompromising beer advocacy and award-winning, independent journalism with a print subscription to BeerAdvocate magazine.