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Any ideas on how to stop lame boxes from showing up? Lame BIF box list?

Discussion in 'Beer Trading Talk' started by readbaron, Dec 14, 2012.

  1. brendan4532

    brendan4532 Aug 11, 2011 Florida
    Beer Trader

    I would like to ask a question. In in a BIF you happen to receive a certain beer and you already have that certain beer, would it be uncool to send that same beer to your target if it happens to be on their wants list? Would that be frowned upon?
  2. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    Way to face the angry mob - it's the only way to stop the momentum on these kinds of threads... This thread raised some great points, and you raised some great ones too.

    The nature of BIFs really does end up being very subjective. Having done a lot of BIFs though, I just want to suggest two things for you (and everyone newer to the scene):

    1 - Pay more attention to the rules. Every BIF has a set of rules, and by joining you agree to those rules. If you don't think you can hit the rules for whatever reason, then just pass on the BIF and wait for the next one, as there are plenty of them. Hell, you can start your own if you're itching for it. For example, I generally avoid growler and sour BIFs because I know I don't live in a great area for compiling an impressive box of either.

    2 - It's not the whale-ishness of the box that matters, it's the thought that counts. Not everybody has equal access, but everybody can find something, or get creative. I don't need wants, or crazy rarities, or a giant box that was swimming in oak - those are all awesome, but ultimately I just like to see that somebody put some effort in. Brand new breweries, a local growler, a nice Belgian bottle that I may have overlooked, "shelf whales", etc, etc. Maybe you "give a little" from your private stash, or trade for something to put into a BIF. Honestly, you seem like you don't live that far from Cigar City. You could probably put together a killer and well appreciated box every time with almost nothing but CC beers...

    Cheers, and I hope you do take a little bit (but not too much) of this thread to heart.
  3. DSlim71

    DSlim71 Mar 3, 2010 New Jersey

    I appreciate responding to this matter and would like to apologize for some of the comments about trying to get over on people if that's not the case. I wasn't in the last round of the sour, saison, and funk BIF but I did participate in the first one. It's not an easy BIF to be in since you have to send highly rated beers and a good amount of them. The box that you sent was brought to my attention because one of my friends was involved in that exchange. I understand if you are trying your best, but unfortunately if your best fails to meet the criteria, that's not an excuse. It looks like your joining a lot of BIFs just to join rather thank taking the time and making sure you can fulfill what is asked of you. And that's the bottom line. I haven't joined the last 2 just because I didn't think I had the ammo. Sometimes you have to take a pass rather than just jumping at every chance.

    Also, from your only hint in Secret Santa, I could be your target and I'd love nothing more than for you to prove me wrong and drop an awesome box on me, I just felt the Sour BIF box was unacceptable. You mentioned you've never received any bad feedback, but the haul post from that thread mentioned they were not pleased with the box. Also someone thought they should "make up for it" by sending an additional box to that person. It was clear that box was not received well.
  4. cfh64

    cfh64 Aug 16, 2005 Texas
    Beer Trader

    I mentioned this exact same thing to OP in a private BM and was satisfied with his honesty and ignorance (no offense OP, I mean that in sincere way) of how other people would view it. I appreciate his response to myself and this thread. I honestly think he's a good guy, will make things right, and will get "better".
  5. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    You'll get varying opinions on this. Some will care, some won't. I personally don't have a huge problem with it, though it might sting a little if it was something I went way out of my way to get for them. But stuff like KBS or BCBS, for example, get sent and received so much that I don't see where anyone could get upset over that. i.e. meaning that I might drink the BCBS somebody sent me, then 6 months later stumble across a 4-pack, buy it, and send a bottle out to somebody else in another BIF.

    IMO the nice gesture is to just ask your BIF sender, especially if it was a recent BIF where they are apt to stumble across it.
  6. lurchingbeast

    lurchingbeast Feb 19, 2009 Illinois

    GonzoIllini did post in the hints and hauls thread that he was disappointed by the box. I would think you saw that.
  7. mizzouguy

    mizzouguy Aug 24, 2010 Missouri
    Beer Trader

    There seems to be a few things going on in this thread, a pointed issue with brendan4532, and an issue at large with bad BIF boxes. I have something to say about both.

    First, I was the target of Brendan in the Barrel Aged BIF and received his box this week so it is fresh. He delivered what I would call a solid box. Nothing life changing, but a box that I think most would be happy to receive. A few beers that we get locally, but ones that are limited and pricey (Parabola & Sucaba). Not a many wants, but all beers I would drink happily. Does this excuse him not hitting the minimum requirements of other BIFs? No, but he has put together boxes that should be known. In all honesty, I would have loved to have received a box with Leon, BA sweet stout and other limited CCB beers, but I was happy with his box.

    Secondly, I think that many of the problems with BIFs are that expectations are too high. Too many people have wants list that are full of Moby Dicks, and BIFs aren't the place to look for whales. I think that you should go into a BIF hoping to get good beers, but if your sender hits all wants or sends you a whale, that is the exception, not the rule. That being said, I've seen a fair about of boxes that suck, straight up. You should send great beers, and that is how I go about putting my boxes together, but if it isn't a wale BIF the hype or rarity of the beer shouldn't be the only judgement of the box. If you want walez, fish in the ISO:FT forum.
    Good_Trader, Crabbicuss and Rempo like this.
  8. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Jul 19, 2009

    I realize this may not be the place for this, but honestly don't pay much attention to BIFs and am curious if there is any sort of standard procedure when a box doesn't live up the *rules*? I mean I assume people other than Brendan have been short, what is typical? Is there a typical?
  9. Pelican5

    Pelican5 Feb 4, 2012 California
    Beer Trader

    Dont think there are any typical remedies or actions. I sent an anonymous box to a guy who got hosed in a BIF I was in awhile back to help ease the pain and balance things out a bit. I think this happens often and behind the scenes. Still, its no excuse for someone to flail and send a lame box, it's not the responsibility of other BA's to cover for their lack of respect.
    adamdd and match1112 like this.
  10. brendan4532

    brendan4532 Aug 11, 2011 Florida
    Beer Trader

    I absolutely have. I really appreciate everyone taking the time to hear me out and also giving me constructive feedback.
    Beerontwowheels and ehammond1 like this.
  11. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Jul 19, 2009

    So there is no *official* black balled from BIF list then I take it. (not saying Brendan deserves that for the record, a general question). But if someone bails completely and never sends they go to bad trader list I think, correct?
    Pelican5 and ehammond1 like this.
  12. ehammond1

    ehammond1 Jul 4, 2008

    Yes, correct, and this has happened in the past.
    MordorMongo likes this.
  13. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    It actually doesn't happen all that often, as traditionally BIFs with any kind of challenging requirements were picky about who they allowed in. I have noticed lately though that more BIFs are accepting anyone, so I can see it happening more...

    Generally what happens is a no-send and it's treated more or less the same as what happens with a Bad Trader. The person is already running away in the distance and there is no recourse other than going on the Bad Trader list and the community pitching in.
    MordorMongo likes this.
  14. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

  15. brendan4532

    brendan4532 Aug 11, 2011 Florida
    Beer Trader

    The moderator and I have been in communication regarding this and I am in the process of gathering items to send him.
    MordorMongo and ehammond1 like this.
  16. Pelican5

    Pelican5 Feb 4, 2012 California
    Beer Trader

    Got to give you a few points for sacking up and trying to make things right, most people would have ran the other way.
    FTowne, MordorMongo and ehammond1 like this.
  17. brendan4532

    brendan4532 Aug 11, 2011 Florida
    Beer Trader

    I appreciate that. It really hurt to know that my name is being perceived in a bad way. A reputation is all a man has. I want my targets to not regret having me as a sender.
    ehammond1, Good_Trader, Hanzo and 2 others like this.
  18. NJOssie

    NJOssie Feb 28, 2012 New Jersey

    I think it's step one to come in here and face the fire... but I don't think it was very honest and or satisfactory... I hate to be the guy that keeps this going but I have to say...

    1. you enter BIF's with minimum requirements... you don't meet them, but you do know you'll get them in return
    2. you have been called out in those BIF's but you claim you had no idea and somehow you want to shift blame on BA's for not letting you know? other BA's (even some not in those BIF's) saw it and said something.
    3. hell, a good BA has even stepped up and sent a box to make up for yours
    4. we all spend our money on beer. If you can't afford to spend your hard earned money on a good box, why are you even joining MULTIPLE BIF's? Don't make it sound like we're some snobs and you're "sorry you don't have all those beers"
    5. you just got called out for having good beers that are up for trade.

    look, I hope you make good with those that you have shorted... I hope you make good with any BA that has felt the need to step up for your shortcomings... It's unfortunate that you didn't do it in the threads you got called out for it and are now playing the innocent guy in here... I really hope before you even think of joining other BIF's or making any trades for your own beer, you do the right thing and make up for what you know you've done
  19. brendan4532

    brendan4532 Aug 11, 2011 Florida
    Beer Trader

    Dude you can take my replies to this thread anyway you want. I am in no way playing innocent guy here. I am not shifting blame to anybody. I was simply stating my case. If you dont think I was sincere there is nothing I can do to change that because I dont know you. All I can do is correct where I fell short.
  20. NJOssie

    NJOssie Feb 28, 2012 New Jersey

    well I hope you do correct it before you decide to join any more BIF's or make any more trades... apparently there's been more than one BA who's had to step up for your shortcomings...

    you stated your case... I stated the flaws in your case. It took getting booted from one BIF and demoted from captain in another... nothing personal but I feel for not only the BA's who you've done wrong, but those great BA's who have stepped up in your place
  21. dblab33

    dblab33 Dec 9, 2011 Michigan

    Being on the recieving end of one of these boxes, I just wanted to say a quick something in response.

    It was my very first BIF. I wasn't expecting to be floored. To be honest, I wasn't entirely sure what to expect as far as receiving goes... I was just looking to put together an amazing box for my target. I was expecting at least the minimums to be met though. With my lack of experience, I was not sure of the right way to approach the situation without somehow coming off as an ungrateful asshole. I did express disappointment in the hauls thread and to the BIF organizer as well who then contacted you.

    It was pretty clear that there were some issues with the box and they were brought to your attention. I was told you were very upset about the situation. I am not the kind of person to directly confront people in sticky situations for fear of their reaction, so I did not reach out to you directly. For that, I apologize. Looking back I probably should have done so. You did not say anything to me directly, but I had friends of yours apologizing to me on your behalf and expressing concern regarding the box as well. It was suggested in the thread that you attempt to make it right and I don't feel like it's my place to contact you and try to get you to do something to rectify the situation. I never heard from you.

    I did not publicly bash you or anything of that nature. I stated that most of my disappointment came from the fact that I put a lot of work into what I sent out and didn't even recieve the main requirement of the BIF - a movie. I was told that you'd at least address the laundry list of issues and never heard a word from you. That was in May.

    I wasn't expecting to recieve the world or top 100 beers in this BIF, I was just expecting to feel like there was a lot of effort put in to what landed on my porch. I got over my butthurt regarding the situation quite a while ago and am still active in BIFs and still send out killer boxes in trades, etc. I have been floored by some of the boxes sent to me by very generous BAs. I sincerely hope you take the advice of others in this thread to heart and that you are the stand up guy that you (and some of your friends) have said you are. I promise anything you give in this crazy beer community, you'll get back tenfold.
  22. stxSS07

    stxSS07 Nov 23, 2010 Illinois

    A+. I would like to subscribe to your newsletter (or trade with you once I get ah job).
    TWStandley likes this.
  23. NJOssie

    NJOssie Feb 28, 2012 New Jersey

    anytime... and thank you
  24. LiquidCourage

    LiquidCourage Nov 1, 2012 Rhode Island
    Beer Trader

    What does BIF stand for? Beer it forward?
  25. ASUBeer

    ASUBeer Nov 4, 2011 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    There is a good John Wooden saying, "the true test of a man's character is what he does when no one is watching."
  26. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    Another good quote, "Don't judge a man by his mistakes, judge him by what he does to correct them."

    Maybe he's a bad guy, and maybe he's not. But he's here to face the fire, he sounds contrite, and says he's going to make good. The majority of people in this situation just run away, so on that alone he deserves a chance IMO.
  27. Pelican5

    Pelican5 Feb 4, 2012 California
    Beer Trader

    I think (hope) he might be on his way to CCB stopping at banks and box stores along the way.
    TWStandley and SirWilliam like this.
  28. match1112

    match1112 Mar 2, 2011 Illinois

    Another saying that I think fits this situation.

    "The true measure of a man is his ability to accept responsibility."
    SirWilliam and dblab33 like this.
  29. NJOssie

    NJOssie Feb 28, 2012 New Jersey

    I guess better late than never... just would have been more respectable when he got called on it in those BIF's and not after he finally got booted from one and demoted from another
    ASUBeer, TWStandley and oteixeira like this.
  30. match1112

    match1112 Mar 2, 2011 Illinois

    This is true. From what I remember reading in those linked threads, he seemed to disappear from them all together after being called out in them.
  31. NJOssie

    NJOssie Feb 28, 2012 New Jersey

    and we know there was supposed back scene communications from other BA's speaking for him... it took his beer trading/BIF supply being threatened for some response and supposed action... after a very flawed "case" on his part
  32. SirWilliam

    SirWilliam Apr 9, 2012 California

    Brendan bm'd me about this as I sent him a bottle of Supplication that he already had. Seems to me he is very much attempting to right a wrong and is concerned about his trading reputation on BA so a cheers to that.
    brendan4532 likes this.
  33. match1112

    match1112 Mar 2, 2011 Illinois

    beer and snatch, two of lifes great motivators!
    robinsmv, Jnorton00 and Pelican5 like this.
  34. brendan4532

    brendan4532 Aug 11, 2011 Florida
    Beer Trader

    I just want to fill you in on the timeline about the two bif's in question. The movie one was back in May. I biffed that one and handled it incorrectly. The sour one was like two weeks ago and I am currently, as stated before, waiting to get the bottles I need to right my wrong. As far as being booted, I found out about that through this thread a few hours ago. I did not know that I was booted. I have not received any notice or email regarding that. And with the demotion in our gang bang...just found out about that today as well at the same time that I was made aware of this thread. So it isnt like I have been ducking and hiding out in the shadows or anything. I just wanted to clarify what is going on here.
  35. NJOssie

    NJOssie Feb 28, 2012 New Jersey

    you just stated before that you didn't know about poor boxes in any BIF's... so what's the story? now you did know about the movie and are fessing up to it and the sour one you are currently addressing?

    look man... it does appear as you've ducked everything... leaving those threads and not looking back after being called on bad boxes... your clarifications and excuses have all been flawed and keep getting worse
  36. cfh64

    cfh64 Aug 16, 2005 Texas
    Beer Trader

    How about this? He f'ed up, he admitted he f'ed up whether it was after being called out or not, and he is currently attempting to right his wrongs. There's nothing more he can do at this point. Again, I know some people here are divided but I give him the benefit of the doubt. Brendan, I hope to see your name pop up in an awesome trader thread title so everyone will put this to rest.
    Lordkrystic, Duff27, BigGene and 5 others like this.
  37. NJOssie

    NJOssie Feb 28, 2012 New Jersey

    I hope he does... just don't care for the bad timing and worse responses... again, I hope he does... I think for the time being we have the right to be skeptical and weary of a BIFer with a bad record
  38. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Jul 19, 2009

    For all I know he is snowing us all, but for him to come here and even try is more of an effort than I expect a true dickbag to make. Let's face it, we had him nailed to the cross and carried halfway up the hill but here he is.....trying. Is it BS? Well seems time will certainly tell. I hope not, but just in case I will keep the nails and hammer handy.
  39. cfh64

    cfh64 Aug 16, 2005 Texas
    Beer Trader

    Absolutely you have that right and I don't blame you. Everyone is going to have their own opinion on this but the only thing he can do at this point is right his wrongs which he is attempting. As far as what we can do...sit back and watch what happens. I think he'll be alright from now on, I hope I'm not wrong :)
    match1112 and NJOssie like this.
  40. oteixeira

    oteixeira Aug 20, 2012 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    I for one will enter any future BIFs on the condition that he is not my sender. If that is unreasonable I am sure the organizer will let be bow out.
    cavedave likes this.
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