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Anyone trade less because of the new trade forum?

Discussion in 'Beer Trading Talk' started by OneBeertoRTA, Sep 11, 2012.

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  1. Levitation

    Levitation Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2009 California

    so when:

    - you mention you have a daughter named isabelle so someone please send you an isabelle
    - you mention your mom passed away from cancer so someone please send you a framboise for a cure
    - you lowball ad nauseum for blabaer (inspired in part by surgery for your wife)

    all of that is ok. it's not underhanded heart-string tugging, attention-seeking, or annoying.

    but if i point it out, i'm an obsessive troll.

    if you don't like being called on your bullshit, maybe stop posting bullshit? i have rarely seen anyone work so hard to brag about his expansive cellar and yet avoid making a fair offer.

    /my dad's named dave and my mom was struck by a yellow bus. my son is named framboos.
     
  2. Overlord

    Overlord Initiate (0) Jun 28, 2007 California

    It doesn't sound like it.

    Cognitive dissonance is a wonderful thing.

    I want you to add: "an ostensibly public internet message board" to the two items you have listed. Now, which of those three things is not like the others?

    Look, it's not entirely about wanting to trade-shit or embarrass people. It's not about the money, either. It's about sending a message. This forum needs better and more entertaining discussions (like, frankly, the ones we used to have). And I want to give it to them.
     
    Gosox8787 likes this.
  3. Overlord

    Overlord Initiate (0) Jun 28, 2007 California

    I have not taken much note of you before, black13, but your posts in conjunction with Levitation's observations have now attracted my attention. I will be following your future endeavors with great interest.
     
  4. Retail1LO

    Retail1LO Initiate (0) May 4, 2011 Pennsylvania

    I'm sure this is what most people miss. I just don't understand why entertaining discussions can't be had anywhere else but in someone's ISO/FT's. It just looks like people need someone to make fun of...or otherwise need someone else's expense at whom they can otherwise have their fun. Seems pretty petty and childish. You can send a message. Privately. Mission accomplished...except you don't have any fun. It makes it seem like sending the message isn't the point. It's the fun derived from the manner in which you send it. Again...if the responses were productive, the ability to reply to ISO's would probably still be active. But it's a gong show, so it's not.
     
  5. Pahn

    Pahn Meyvn (1,448) Dec 2, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    while i have a strong suspicion that i disagree with a lot of overlord's implied esthetic judgments, i have to admit that the ISO:FT threadshitting was significantly funnier than much of the forced-meme wannabe comedy elsewhere at BA.

    at the same time, that's sort of like pointing out that something is more fun than being hit directly in the face with an aluminum bat.
     
    franklinn likes this.
  6. black13

    black13 Disciple (303) Apr 11, 2010 Oregon
    Beer Trader

    Let this be my last response to Levitation.
    Yes my daughter is named Isabella! Yes I made a funny diatribe about Blabaer and my wife's surgery. All fun and games.
    Yes my mom did die from cancer. Sept 28th to be exact! You crossed the line on that one! The next time you feel like making a reference or statement, how about excluding the death of family members!
     
    Kuemmelbrau likes this.
  7. OneBeertoRTA

    OneBeertoRTA Devotee (487) Jan 2, 2010 California
    Beer Trader

    I'm sensing you had a bad experience in the ISO/FT forum, public humiliation perhaps?

    It's much easier in the new forum for the auctioners to throw out vague ISO's and sit back waiting for the best offer. In the old world, I miss those guys who would chime in to tell them that their BM offer of the exact ISO beers was turned down or the occasional guy that stated their are 75 cases on the floor at the Bevmo across the street...
     
    domtronzero and Overlord like this.
  8. Levitation

    Levitation Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2009 California

    dude... you mentioned it, and tried to milk it. that's not something i could have known unless you had posted it.

    sorry for your loss, but don't pretend i crossed the line by mentioning something YOU posted. i've lost family members to cancer and i found your iso shameless, classless, and disrespectful.
     
  9. Overlord

    Overlord Initiate (0) Jun 28, 2007 California

    Indeed.

    o_O
     
    ASUBeer, Pahn and Gosox8787 like this.
  10. Pahn

    Pahn Meyvn (1,448) Dec 2, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    @auction threads:

    1) report them,

    2) i'm john auctioner. i want to auction off a beer. here's what i do:

    FT: beer i have that i know lots of people want.
    ISO: beer a few orders of magnitude more valuable than my beer.

    1 of 2 outcomes ensue:

    a) i actually get the valuable beer. i then flip-or-drink it.
    b) people PM me "lowballing" my offer, or at least trying to negotiate with me. i take part in "negotiations," ie stall for time as i field other "negotiations." AKA i hold an auction.

    ---

    this cannot be policed with rules. you need to call out scammers, and (more importantly!) keep "The Whole Point Of Trading" in mind and not fall for bullshit like that.

    p.s. note, john auction above is a bit of a moron too, since he went to all that trouble and probably just ended up ticking a 5 year old american wild ale or something. tweeted about it, and the 20 people who read the tweet didn't give a shit.

    ---

    edit2: Some Trading 101 (Trading 102?) Notes About This Post's Hypothetical

    1) if you see john auction's sleazy ISO, PM him a beer you're willing to give up for the beer he's offering, and the trade goes through, things aren't really going badly. maybe he's not going to be the guy who kills you with extras or sends you an unsolicited box full of your wants, but so what?

    2) if beer continues to get more valuable, note that you also have to, unfortunately, advert to more than just forum etiquette to look out for scammers. e.g. you'd think from my posts that i'm the warmest, most generous man on earth, but maybe i'm a scammer! (dramatic music)
     
  11. Retail1LO

    Retail1LO Initiate (0) May 4, 2011 Pennsylvania

    Actually...no. But I found it distasteful to see people who weren't even remotely interested in the actual ISO/FT teeing off on it because, well...they could. I suppose you're right in regards to vague ISO's and what is blatantly an auction. However...even in ISO's that are clear cut, I've BM'ed offering other things not even listed, and gotten things done. I'm sure LOTS of people "counter" with offers not listed. Is it not an auction then too?

    I admit, there are SOME merits to having replies enabled. And I'm sure SOME people would use them to a productive end.
     
  12. Pittsky

    Pittsky Initiate (0) May 28, 2009 Florida
    Beer Trader

    I don't really get why anyone cares if someone decides to try to "auction" beer anyhow. If you're too dumb to realize you're taking part in an auction and getting had, then you need to wise up. Live and Learn

    As long as all parties are happy and agree on whatever the hell they agree on, even though it's rediculous and lopsided, who gives a shit. Some people really care about beer advocacy and some don't. That's their right i suppose. If they wanna trade solely to mazimize the amount of beer they can get, let em. Don't like it? Don't trade with them. My .2 cents.
     
  13. Overlord

    Overlord Initiate (0) Jun 28, 2007 California

    I do. The beer market is a delicate equilibrium, fueled by a combustible mixture of rarity, hype, greed, teeth gnashing, ethylene glycol, and somewhere on the list taste, smell, etc. These transactions do not exist in a vacuum, they are amalgamated into The Beer Trading Market(tm) and they affect all of us. Folks use these transactions to dictate prices, distort markets, and prevent traders from getting a fair deal.

    It's because of this dynamic that organizations such as the Federation of United California Traders (F.U.C.T.) were originally conceived. And through the iron hand of collective bargaining, fairness for all was ensured. That paradigm has been broken due to the stifling of free and impartial speech from third parties.
     
  14. Rempo

    Rempo Initiate (0) Jan 18, 2010 Indiana

    It was boob surgery.

    (I think)
     
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  15. Pittsky

    Pittsky Initiate (0) May 28, 2009 Florida
    Beer Trader

    So what is it you think should be done?
     
    Overlord likes this.
  16. Overlord

    Overlord Initiate (0) Jun 28, 2007 California

    Never has a "pics or gtfo" comment been more warranted. However, I will refrain from engaging in such tomfoolery.
     
    FTowne, Kuemmelbrau and Czar_chasm like this.
  17. Overlord

    Overlord Initiate (0) Jun 28, 2007 California

    1.)Remove all moderation except for the following: posts that advocate serious lawbreaking such as violence, posts that reveal personal information about users, and obvious spam/advertising. Repeating the same thing over and over again without entertaining us constitutes spam.

    2.)Create a "miscellaneous"/"catch-all" forum. If a thread doesn't belong where it's posted, rather than being summarily wished into the cornfield it is moved there. Off-topic stuff goes there.

    3.)To oversee the transition of what sure is to be a chaotic and exciting time, appoint me as Supreme Chancellor with authority to nullify and/or approve trade offers. When this time of crisis has passed, I assure all of you that I will happily step down.
     
    FTowne, MarkIntihar, jrnyc and 6 others like this.
  18. Czar_chasm

    Czar_chasm Initiate (123) Jun 20, 2012 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    overlord killin it
     
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  19. Pahn

    Pahn Meyvn (1,448) Dec 2, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    terrible idea that would just encourage more stupidity from Wannabe Forum Heroes outside of the off-topic section. flood of unfunny in-jokes pervading the entire site.
     
    Knifestyles likes this.
  20. BdubleEdubleRUN

    BdubleEdubleRUN Initiate (0) Jul 28, 2009 California

    Feel free not to click on that forum?
    profit?
    They can set it up so it doesn't feed into the "new posts" and you have to click on that forum to view new posts.
     
    FTowne and Overlord like this.
  21. Overlord

    Overlord Initiate (0) Jun 28, 2007 California

    I am sorry that you are so terribly afraid that you will give in to temptation and CLICK ON A LINK THAT YOU CAN EASILY AVOID that the rest of us must go without, but ... actually wait, I'm not sorry at all. DON'T CLICK ON STUFF THAT DOESN'T INTEREST YOU.
     
    jrnyc and BdubleEdubleRUN like this.
  22. Rempo

    Rempo Initiate (0) Jan 18, 2010 Indiana

    You're missing his point. The jokes here aren't funny enough.
     
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  23. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,017) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    That's true. The unquoted part, and this part above.

    I remember watching crazy offers get attaboys, and there was discussion about them, in *gasp* the trade thread. and it was a drama on the board that was a part of it. For every "yo bro that won't get done, you are stupid" there was a big offer looking for a trade, something that also requires a lot of bumps. Who remembers that huge treyrab trade? It got bumped til it completed.

    We remember because it was dramatic, it was a part of what we enjoyed about trading, seeing those get made. Or when shogo decided to rebel against the ebay mentality, and offered nothing for a whale. And made the trade.
    Do people act like idiots sometimes? Is this a website of adults? Does alcohol play a role in things sometimes?

    Geepers sometimes I feel like my kids know more about computers than me, but it still cracks me up how thin skinned young folks are, and us old fart AOL 3.0 vets have such an easy attitude about it. Forums were forums back then this ain't shit. That said, younguns is the demographic to be catered to by this site, and the craft beer industry in general, so there you have ebay mentality and no replies in the ISO. Good or bad, tis whatit tis
     
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  24. BobZ

    BobZ Disciple (391) Jun 24, 2009 Massachusetts

    For over a thousand generations, the Trade Police were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Forum. Before the dark times... before the Empire!

    True Dat (just more unfunny crap:oops:)
     
    Rempo likes this.
  25. RC0032

    RC0032 Initiate (65) Mar 10, 2009 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Would the forum be any fun without drama? What would we talk about at tastings?
     
    Overlord likes this.
  26. Pahn

    Pahn Meyvn (1,448) Dec 2, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    you missed the point. if i could just avoid

    "OvErLoRd'S jOkE fAcToRy: TODAYS TOPIC: LOLOLOLOL"

    i would. but terrible jokes and forum personalities will develop within that topic and others, and they will spread like herpes to beer talk, ISO:FT, etc.

    you can't find another forum for random chat? really?
     
    Retail1LO likes this.
  27. BdubleEdubleRUN

    BdubleEdubleRUN Initiate (0) Jul 28, 2009 California

    I do this already, inside jokes with people from private convo's that bring the lulz. you mad?
     
  28. DrAwkward82

    DrAwkward82 Initiate (55) Apr 16, 2005 California

    I like the fact that the trade forum no longer allows replies. Some BAs seem to find it terribly hard to come to terms with the fact the BeerAdvocate is not reddit or 4chan.
     
    cetherid likes this.
  29. Overlord

    Overlord Initiate (0) Jun 28, 2007 California

    You fear a disease, but the cure is even worse. We need to bring balance to the site.
     
  30. Overlord

    Overlord Initiate (0) Jun 28, 2007 California

    I totally get your point. Isn't it just horrible when people, instead of communicating directly, use facetious/sarcastic/humorous ways to convey their message? It's just so miserable. There's this discussion about a GQ article on the "five best beer cities" on the main page, and this one guy just comes in with a random, all-caps, obvious joke message that really doesn't contribute to the discussion.

    http://beeradvocate.com/community/t...-in-top-5-best-beer-cities.41954/#post-528192

    Oh wait, it was kind of funny, even though it was off topic and a bit "4chan-nish." I like that kind of stuff. Maybe I should tolerate it in other forums as well.
     
  31. DrAwkward82

    DrAwkward82 Initiate (55) Apr 16, 2005 California

    You missed the point: it's okay when I do it. :oops:
     
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  32. Overlord

    Overlord Initiate (0) Jun 28, 2007 California

    [MANLY BELLICOSE LAUGHTER AND A CLAP ON THE BACK TO DRAWKWARD82]
     
  33. daysinthewake

    daysinthewake Initiate (0) Nov 13, 2010 California

    F.U.C.T. 4 LIFE
     
    Overlord likes this.
  34. kmello69

    kmello69 Defender (617) Nov 27, 2011 Texas
    Beer Trader

    My last name begins with an "M", in case you were wondering.....

    In all seriousness, i dont trade from here, because I have a few non-BA buddies across the country I trade with regularly, but from an outside perspective the trade forum seems to be becoming more like ebay - lots of people now seem to want to field offers, rather than be specific about what they're looking for. Blah.
     
  35. glitchedmind

    glitchedmind Initiate (0) May 8, 2012 California

    Not that it could have been prevented if replies were allowed in the forums, but I recently bm'd someone regarding some FBS. Their first response was, "yes, Im still open to trade, make me an offer". Knowing where this was going (and anticipating the response), I decided to play along. I offered exactly what they posted in the thread, as I thought it was a totally fair trade. After reading my BM, A couple hours later they replied that they had received a better offer. Which was nearly half of what he had actually listed in the posting.

    These styles of posts, people lying about the cost of bottles (while trying to trade $4$), and other shenanigans are starting to be quite commonplace since the inability to reply. Just my experiences.

    edit: posts that I have seen people lying about the cost of bottles were reported for the very reason, and were eventually deleted. Unfortunately, the person learned, and no longer posts the price in the threads. I'm pretty sure he is still doing it via bm though.
     
  36. Patrick

    Patrick Initiate (0) Aug 13, 2007 Massachusetts

    Posts like this have always existed, at least in my experience.
     
  37. glitchedmind

    glitchedmind Initiate (0) May 8, 2012 California

    You are absolutely correct. They have, but with a lot less frequency.
    Sure, you can BM the user, but if they are knowingly "one upping" others, they are going to do nothing about it. Maybe chuckle, delete the BM, and continue about their business.
     
  38. Patrick

    Patrick Initiate (0) Aug 13, 2007 Massachusetts

    I demand evidence.
     
  39. Czar_chasm

    Czar_chasm Initiate (123) Jun 20, 2012 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    I may be in the minority but when I am vague about what I'd like it's because I'm relatively new to the craft beer scene (at least the high end / rarer stuff) and don't really know exactly what I want until it's offered. I usually will put out a few specific wants and then say I'll entertain other should wants or offers. I don't really know a functional way to differentiate this from "auction" style posts so maybe it's useless posting this but I just thought I'd throw that out there...
     
  40. Czar_chasm

    Czar_chasm Initiate (123) Jun 20, 2012 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    I see what you're saying and I agree. I'm not sure how you can really combat / spot that though other than someone saying that directly. For example, a past trading partner posted an ISO recently that got a lot of responses. I BM'd him and he ended up trading with me as I was a past trading partner but there were a lot of other responses. Those who offered what he wanted might feel like someone else offered more, etc. Also, if you put up an offer and get a lot of interest all at once why wouldn't you take the best offer? To me, there's a ton of gray area that makes it impossible to correctly define / enforce.

    To the last point I think that's spot on. People have been very generous to me in my short time here and I try my best to return it. I regularly let past trading partners know special stuff I've been able to pick up. They don't always want it bad enough to trade for volume ( again, if someone is willing to give me something I want to try that's hard to get I'll probably trade volume with them over someone I've traded with that isn't willing to give that up) but I'll keep a few bottles around to send as extras during the next trade if they show any interest.

    tl;dr- I think I agree with you in principle but it seems futile to try to enforce rules regarding it on a forum...
     
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