Assault on craft beer?

Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by milliCAN, Apr 9, 2013.

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  1. milliCAN

    milliCAN Initiate (0) Feb 23, 2013 Indiana

    I was just poking around on beer ratings on BA. Check out the most recent ratings on this link. Then scroll down to see the breweries. All A.B., Miller, Coors, BS breweries. Looking further click on some of the users who most all of them are just registered recently.

    I don't know what's going on here but I find it horrifying.
  2. Frankinstiener

    Frankinstiener Aspirant (205) Jul 28, 2009 Illinois

    The largest deviations will happen when a user gives the beers with the lowest averages really high ratings, or gives the beers with the highest average really low rating. Since american adjunct lagers have the lowest ratings on the site they will always populate the list the way you sorted them. Even the worst brews that are considered real craft get ratings in the 70's those can't show up on this list becuase even if you give it a 5/5 its not nearly the deviation of giving a beer with a 40 overall a 5/5. If you sort the list the opposite way, you will see a bunch of reviews where someone gives a highly rated beer a 1/5.

    In sum to land on the list the way you sorted it the beer has to have a terrible average rating and then get close to a perfect rating. It's all BMC's because those have the worst average ratings. Wait was this a joke?
  3. joaopmgoncalves

    joaopmgoncalves Meyvn (1,316) Dec 17, 2012 Portugal

  4. DaveAnderson

    DaveAnderson Zealot (510) Jan 11, 2011 Minnesota

    There's no way to get a +50% rDev unless the beer is rated below 76 or so, and you give it a 5. Give a 5 to a beer that's a 98, and you get roughly +12% rDev.

    All you are seeing in that view is that bad beers have more room to improve than good ones.

    Plus, when you turn it around, you can see a huge list of tickers -- people who merely click "1" to record a "had". Naturally, good beers have farther to fall than bad ones.
  5. milliCAN

    milliCAN Initiate (0) Feb 23, 2013 Indiana

    Not a joke at all.

    The thing that gets me is that so many of them are all recently registered users giving 5 - 4.75 - etc. ratings for such horrible beers. I can honestly say that any of my friends who still drink those beers never heard of or don't give two craps about setting up an account on here to review their Miller lite or whatever.
    KhakCane likes this.
  6. Frankinstiener

    Frankinstiener Aspirant (205) Jul 28, 2009 Illinois

    Yeah but most long time members don't even review beers like those. Think about it are you more likely to rate a Corona highly the day you join BA or 3 years after?
  7. LambicPentameter

    LambicPentameter Meyvn (1,428) Aug 29, 2012 Nebraska

    Even if this was some kind of coordinated assault on craft beer, I don't see what any of the BMCs gain from this tactic. It's not like they are going to fool BAs into thinking that these beers are good, and even the new members on BA are surely people interested in the craft beer movement and would view highly-rated American Adjunct Lagers with great suspicion.

    But yes, was this a joke?
  8. mattafett

    mattafett Aspirant (275) Mar 9, 2009 Iowa

    The great thing about "hads" is it is very easy to re-rate a beer as your tastes change. These members may very well be rating correctly - at this point. The trick is to go back and review some older "hads" once in a while. Re-rate if needed.
  9. milliCAN

    milliCAN Initiate (0) Feb 23, 2013 Indiana

    It just seems dirty. If someone went through the trouble to boost the ratings on those beers and say a year or two down the line they are amongst the top rated beers, which I don't think will ever happen, people like us will probably be a little upset. I'm just sayin'
    jrnyc and joaopmgoncalves like this.
  10. Danny1217

    Danny1217 Champion (826) Jul 15, 2011 Florida

  11. joaopmgoncalves

    joaopmgoncalves Meyvn (1,316) Dec 17, 2012 Portugal

    I've recently joined BA and for my first reviews I've actually went through all the beers I've ever had - even the ones I knew that are poor (just for the sake of reviewing).

    But you know, the guys who give 5's to Coronas and Budweisers will never be taken seriously.
  12. milliCAN

    milliCAN Initiate (0) Feb 23, 2013 Indiana

  13. joaopmgoncalves

    joaopmgoncalves Meyvn (1,316) Dec 17, 2012 Portugal

  14. Frankinstiener

    Frankinstiener Aspirant (205) Jul 28, 2009 Illinois

    Your missing the point. Every beer that gets enough reviews will eventaully get someone to rate it a 5/5 or close and someone else to rate it 1/5. The list the way you sorted will always be people giving beers with the lowest averages close to 5/5. If anything you should be happy that the BMCs have the lowest averages and so they will end up on the list the way you sorted it.
  15. Frankinstiener

    Frankinstiener Aspirant (205) Jul 28, 2009 Illinois

    Unless you had good notes on all the beers you have had then that's just as bad as anything. You can't go posting a review of a beer you had over a year ago on memory. Whats the point?
    milliCAN likes this.
  16. milliCAN

    milliCAN Initiate (0) Feb 23, 2013 Indiana

    I absolutely understand what you are saying and agree. Hopefully amazing beer will win as it always should. My thing is that all of those top recent reviews are overwhelmingly for those crap beers.
  17. joaopmgoncalves

    joaopmgoncalves Meyvn (1,316) Dec 17, 2012 Portugal

    True story. You have a (good) point but basically I did it to be able to add beers that were missing on BA's database. Now that I've added them, I can "clean" the Hads on my profile related to beers I don't quite remember and the ones that I haven't tried recently.
  18. milliCAN

    milliCAN Initiate (0) Feb 23, 2013 Indiana

    I will say that running a site like BA has to be a huge pain in the ass. I can't imagine the stress of the hype and lack of understanding, like many of us do, myself included, to run this thing. I guess if it was called "Craft Beer Advocate" then we could bitch about the big breweries.

    Is it possible for A.B., Miller/Coors/corona/ Blah Blah that have the money to have people set up BA accounts to bring up their ratings and hurt real beer ratings? I think it's entirely possible. I guess the old saying goes: "Every dollar is a vote"!

    I love this site and the community. I just hate the thought of such a shitty thing going on here.
    Zimbo likes this.
  19. KhakCane

    KhakCane Initiate (0) Apr 15, 2010 North Carolina

    QUICK! the Alstrommobile!
  20. riemster

    riemster Initiate (0) Mar 17, 2011 Ohio

    Bud Ice Review - "Firstly, the appearance is magnificent." and "The taste is unmatched."

    Oh come on. I respect everyone's opinion, but... COME ON SHELLY. This thread rocks. Hilarious.
  21. beercanman

    beercanman Initiate (0) Dec 17, 2012 Ohio

    Lol. 5 for corona light. Someone is having some fun.
  22. Zimbo

    Zimbo Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2010 United Kingdom (Scotland)

    Absolutely farcical. The Cult of the Amateur strikes again. Either that or someone's taking the piss. Or posting on behalf of Budweiser, Miller or Coors. Any way it needs to be stopped.
  23. riemster

    riemster Initiate (0) Mar 17, 2011 Ohio

    If this thread gets deleted I'm going to go out and buy some natty and bud ice and rate them as 5's. Please don't delete this! :[
  24. longbongsilver

    longbongsilver Disciple (322) Aug 27, 2005 Missouri

    Considering the thought behind macro brews is lowest common denominator/ "just don't offend anybody", them veering around so much here just reflects the difference between people who join sites like this & people who don't. Trying hard to just not offend anybody = low taste = us usually saying "this beer sucks".
  25. Weavagra

    Weavagra Initiate (0) Dec 12, 2012 Pennsylvania

    Just wait until the app is fully launched and people download it and play with the had function. I think it being free will lead to a lot of fake ratings.
  26. Frankinstiener

    Frankinstiener Aspirant (205) Jul 28, 2009 Illinois

    NastyNate11 likes this.
  27. NastyNate11

    NastyNate11 Initiate (0) Jan 13, 2013 North Carolina

    I systematically went through the postings on the elevated BMC products and the Substantially low ratings on fine craft beer and there seems to be nothing egregious. The only one that stands out to me is the Three Floyd's homer who rated Old Stock and Expedition Stout a 1 but all Three Floyds products high. These are college kids having some fun and having no sense of craft. Nothing more. Carry on.
  28. milliCAN

    milliCAN Initiate (0) Feb 23, 2013 Indiana

    Dude. They didn't rate crap beers at 5. This is not a valid argument. It kinda looks like you are trying to start an argument.
  29. milliCAN

    milliCAN Initiate (0) Feb 23, 2013 Indiana

    Plus they didn't just open their accounts three days ago either.
  30. Frankinstiener

    Frankinstiener Aspirant (205) Jul 28, 2009 Illinois

    Perfectly valid argument. It shows that even with the best reviewers the largest deviations will come when they give okay or good ratings to the lowest rated beer or poor ratings to the highest rated beers.
    Look at Jasons review for Steel Reserve.
    He gives it an 84 becuase he is judging it agianst other American Malt Liquors, he thinks its much better than the other malt liquor he had tried at the time. He is rating it against malt liquors not imperial stouts.
  31. milliCAN

    milliCAN Initiate (0) Feb 23, 2013 Indiana

    This is a loosing battle, man. I am trying to make a point about lots and lots of newly registered users rating shit beers as world class. It's not about the Bro's reviews or why they reviewed them how they did.
  32. Norica

    Norica Aspirant (231) Feb 2, 2006 Massachusetts

    Gotta love people who have been on this site less than 3 months complaining about new members...
  33. milliCAN

    milliCAN Initiate (0) Feb 23, 2013 Indiana

    Touché. Wow you did your homework. Perhaps I should rate some really bad beers extremely high. I have work to do.
  34. RblWthACoz

    RblWthACoz Initiate (0) Aug 19, 2006 Pennsylvania

    I think it's called idiocy.
  35. Frankinstiener

    Frankinstiener Aspirant (205) Jul 28, 2009 Illinois

    Right, but I am telling you that this is not a problem and sorting brews this way show next to nothing. This is why I pointed out that if you sort the Bros reviews the same way you get a similar result. Someone will rate poor beers 5/5 and someone will rate world class beers 1/5. "Lots and lots" of reviewers are not doing this. Sort just by most recent reviews and how long do you have to scroll down until you find one of the reviews in question? If this did become a problem and no one put a stop to it then the average of these beers would go up at which point they would no longer appear on the list the way you sorted them because the deviations couldn't possibly be as large.
    milliCAN likes this.
  36. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (4,006) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Two things to keep in mind.

    1) There are so many ratings for most of those beers that the folks you are worried about are just wasting their time if in fact they are trying to beef up the ratings. The effect won't even be noticable in the stats.

    2) The bros have a provision/policy that if you suspect those folks of playing dirty you can report them by sending mail to Todd and/or Jason and they'll take care of it. (As they have in the past.)

    So don't let it bug you too much. Mostly its just noise in the system that will be tuned out.
    milliCAN likes this.
  37. milliCAN

    milliCAN Initiate (0) Feb 23, 2013 Indiana

    I can get behind that. I do agree with a huge amount of your points. But on it's surface it seems to be some weird stuff going on. I may be jumping the gun on what the integrity of these people though seeing that list does make have to take into consideration some BS. Stranger things have happened.
    Frankinstiener likes this.
  38. szmnnl99

    szmnnl99 Crusader (783) Apr 3, 2006 Michigan

    Most of the New Bud Light ratings are bad, nothing to see here.

    04-09-2013 Bud Light Anheuser-Busch SmellsofMahagony 1.75 -6.3%
    03-12-2013 Bud Light Anheuser-Busch allbrigs 2.25 +17.3%
    03-12-2013 Bud Light Anheuser-Busch Nick_Foltz 1 -86%
    03-18-2013 Bud Light Anheuser-Busch benbjb 1 -86%
    04-09-2013 Bud Light Anheuser-Busch Schlafly33 1.25 -48.8%
    04-03-2013 Bud Light Anheuser-Busch jleighhh 1.5 -24%
    03-15-2013 Bud Light Anheuser-Busch WillKillem 1.25 -48.8%
    03-16-2013 Bud Light Anheuser-Busch rgille2 1 -86%
    03-11-2013 Bud Light Anheuser-Busch JeffSuttonTX 3 +38%
    03-22-2013 Bud Light Anheuser-Busch spencerg293 1.75 -6.3%
    03-16-2013 Bud Light Anheuser-Busch csmartin6 2 +7%
    04-08-2013 Bud Light Anheuser-Busch warpedrevolution 2 +7%
    03-25-2013 Bud Light Anheuser-Busch GuitarIPA 1 -86%
    03-19-2013 Bud Light Anheuser-Busch Miami66 3 +38%
    03-23-2013 Bud Light Anheuser-Busch klesniew 1.25 -48.8%
    03-22-2013 Bud Light Anheuser-Busch Lare453 1.25 -48.8%
    03-18-2013 Bud Light Anheuser-Busch kleibs 1 -86%
  39. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,945) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society

    It's really not that big of a deal.
    • We welcome a diverse group of people here, and with that comes diverse opinions.
    • Some people actually consider the style when rating, vs rating certain beer brands/styles low by default as the overall craft beer community has been conditioned to trash them.
    • If you suspect blatant abuse of the system, report it; we'll need some proof.
    • Do not report a user simply because you disagree with their opinion.
    Frankinstiener likes this.
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