Averagely Perfect Dubbel - Poll #15 - D-90 Syrup Percentage

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by VikeMan, Apr 17, 2018.


Select the percentage by weight for D-90 Syrup

Poll closed Apr 19, 2018.
  1. 2%

    0 vote(s)
  2. 4%

    0 vote(s)
  3. 6%

  4. 8%

  5. 10%

  6. 12%

    0 vote(s)
  7. 14%

  8. 16%

    0 vote(s)
  9. 18%

    0 vote(s)
  10. 20%

    0 vote(s)
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  1. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,962) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania

    -> Poll #14 <- determined that the yeast strain will be Wyeast 3787 / WLP530.

    This poll will determine the percentage of D-90 Syrup in the grain (fermentables) bill. After the D-90 Syrup, we'll determine the overall percentage of the two crystal malts (Special B and Caramunuch) together, then the split between the two. That will leave the rest of the bill for the Belgian Pilsner Malt.

    The percentage being selected here is by weight, not by gravity "points" contribution.

    If you are not a believer in specifying fermentables by percentages (due to non-proportional flavor/color extraction for different grains at various mash efficiencies, or due to the fact that the D-90 Syrup will not be subject to a mash efficiency), the assumed mash efficiency for the grains in the final recipe will be 70%, if that helps.

    When this poll is done, I will look at the data a few different ways to determine the central tendency. It may or may not be as simple as a plurality would indicate. There may or may not be a runoff. It all depends on the data.

    I recommend you think about this in terms of not only your personal preferences, but also in the context of the ABV and Final Gravity (and thus the attenuation) already selected, the grains (%s TBD) already selected, and the yeast strain already selected. I also recommend thinking ahead about how much room you'll need in the grist for the other fermentables. In other words, build your ideal proportions for all the fermentables in your head before voting in this poll.

    This poll will be open for 48 hours.

    If you have issues with or suggestions for methodologies used in this project, please send them via beermail. Let's keep the threads themselves on topic to the question at hand and not about how you would have asked the question differently.

    The Averagely Perfect Dubbel Recipe so far...

    Target ABV: 7.0%
    OG: 1.065
    FG: 1.012
    Yeast: Wyeast 3787 or WLP530

    Grains/Fermentables (proportions TBD):
    Belgian Pilsner Malt
    D-90 Syrup
    Special B
  2. CarolusP

    CarolusP Initiate (0) Oct 22, 2015 Minnesota

    To me, ideally, this recipe would use a 1 lb bag of candi syrup. I just used an quick online calculator to enter 1 lb of candi syrup, then I kept adding more malts until hitting our 1.065 OG. This ended up being 7.8% candi syrup, so I'm voting 8%.
    crcostel and Naugled like this.
  3. Naugled

    Naugled Defender (640) Sep 25, 2007 New York

    I can be had for that logic. I've used as little as 1/4 lb to more than an lb in dubbels in the past. In none did it seem too little or too much. Just need to keep an eye on the finish gravity.
    jbakajust1 likes this.
  4. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,906) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin

    Using my running recipe I came up with 1 lb = 8.3%. Voting 8. If my wort falls a little short on gravity, I’d probably adjust upwards with a little table sugar.
    jbakajust1, crcostel and CarolusP like this.
  5. crcostel

    crcostel Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2006 Illinois

    My recipe is

    10lb14oz Belgian Pilsner 87.9%
    1lb D90 8.1%
    4oz Caramunich 2%
    4oz Special B 2%

    Voted 8% and will do 4% on the Caramunich/Special B combo poll.
  6. deadwolfbones

    deadwolfbones Initiate (159) Jun 21, 2014 Oregon

    See, I subscribe to the same logic, but I'm doing 3 gal batches, so I voted 14%. :wink:
    dmtaylor likes this.
  7. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,906) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin

    I'm intrigued. What do we know about this?
  8. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,962) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania

    I may not be the best one to explain, because I don't actually subscribe to it, but there are some who believe that, for example, if a 5 gallon batch of stout recipe needs 1.5 lbs of roasted barley, then it always needs 1.5 lbs regardless of whether mash efficiency is, say, 60% or 85%. IOW, keep the amounts of specialty grains constant, and only vary the base malt. The argument goes something like "with specialty grains, you're really just extracting flavor and color, and those are not subject to mash efficiency." Personally, I think that's mostly bollocks. If you think about how mash efficiency works, i.e. all the volumes, concentrations, and losses, I believe it pretty much applies to flavor/color as well as sugars/dextrins.
  9. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,906) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin

    Ok, I’ve heard this. My guess is at the coarse level of human perception (e.g. your average consumer/ Brulosopher) maybe it doesn’t matter? But in terms of analytical chemistry, it would make a difference.
  10. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Aspirant (223) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    This concept is another relic from the old days that needs to die IMO.
  11. Dave_S

    Dave_S Initiate (69) May 18, 2017 England

    In other words, it's a question of how much of the difference in efficiency is down to a difference in conversion efficiency and how much is down to a difference in lauter efficiency? If I had crap conversion efficiency but normal lautering then I'd want to keep the absolute volume of flavouring grains roughly the same, whereas if I had standard conversion but crap lauter efficiency then I'd want to adjust it in proportion with everything else?
  12. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,962) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania

    My view is that if you have crap conversion efficiency, you probably also have crap color/flavor extraction. In my mind, bad conversion efficiency is usually tied to something like a too coarse grain crush, which should also affect color/flavor. Though I suppose you could totally screw the pooch on, say, temperature, and end up with a steep (vs. a mash) that extracts color/flavor, but converts nothing. But then you've got bigger problems than trying to determine the best recipe proportions!

    (I don't mean "you" particularly, but rather "someone.")
    Dave_S likes this.
  13. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,962) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania

    8% it is.
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