Averagely Perfect Dubbel - Poll #6 - Sugar, Sugar Products, and/or Honey

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by VikeMan, Apr 1, 2018.

?

Choose one or more sugary ingredients.

Poll closed Apr 3, 2018.
  1. Corn Sugar, Table Sugar, or Clear Rock Candi Sugar

    20.5%
  2. Dark Rock Candi Sugar or Granulated/Solid Unrefined Sugar

    20.5%
  3. Homemade Invert Syrup

    5.1%
  4. Honey

    5.1%
  5. D-240 Syrup

    2.6%
  6. D-180 Syrup

    35.9%
  7. D-90 Syrup

    46.2%
  8. D-45 Syrup

    12.8%
  9. Clear Candy Syrup

    5.1%
  10. Soft Candi Sugar

    5.1%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,962) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    -> Poll #5 <- determined that one or more ingredients from "Sugar, Sugar Products, and/or Honey" will advance (inseparably with one or more ingredients from "CaraPils and/or Other Cara/Crystal Malt(s)") to a future combo poll that will feature at least one ingredient from "Munich and/or Vienna Malt(s)" and at least one ingredient from "Aromatic/Aroma Malt."

    This poll will decide what Sugar, Sugar Product(s), and/or Honey advance as described above.

    You can select more than one choice. The #1 overall choice will automatically advance to compete further. Beyond that, any other choices that get votes from at least 30% of respondents will advance to another poll to determine the exact combination (if any) that joins #1 in advancing. Want something that's not listed? Write it in. If your first choice is losing badly, consider jumping to a similar choice that has more votes.

    I recommend you think about this in terms of not only your personal preferences, but also in the context of the ABV and Final Gravity (and thus the attenuation) already selected, malt already selected, and malts still possible, as well as any possible yeast strain selection that might be kicking around in your head.

    This poll will be open for 48 hours.

    If you have issues with or suggestions for methodologies used in this project, please send them via beermail. Let's keep the threads themselves on topic to the question at hand and not about how you would have asked the question differently.

    The Averagely Perfect Dubbel Recipe so far...

    Target ABV: 7.0%
    OG: 1.065
    FG: 1.012

    Grains/Fermentables:
    Belgian Pilsner Malt: IN
    Sugar, Sugar Products, and/or Honey: possibly in
    CaraPils and/or Other Cara/Crystal Malt(s): possibly in, living or dying along with Sugary ingredient(s)
    Munich and/or Vienna Malt(s): possibly in
    Aromatic/Aroma Malt: possibly in
     
  2. crcostel

    crcostel Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2006 Illinois

    C180 is the classic choice with C90 right behind. I went C90 because I actually prefer its profile and I like that I can use more of it for the same color contribution.

    I also said sugar in case we need to boost attenuation even more.
     
    MrOH likes this.
  3. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,906) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    Never used D45. Always had it in mind that I would do a dubbel with it. Who is with me?
    <crickets>
     
  4. crcostel

    crcostel Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2006 Illinois

    I actually have some leftover D45 but I think it will go in an Belgian Amber (ala Rare Vos) but not for a dubbel.
     
  5. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,906) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    Yes, my musings essentially were that you could achieve the color of a dubbel without the dark fruit. Rare Vos might be an example (it has been some time since I had one). Would such a beer fit stylistically, or do we all feel that the dark fruit component must be there. Maybe I should pursue a Rare Vos clone separately from this exercise.
     
  6. CarolusP

    CarolusP Initiate (0) Oct 22, 2015 Minnesota

    How concerned are we with BJCP guidelines? A pound of D180 puts us over the Dubbel SRM guidelines by quite a bit. I went with D90. Who wants to buy a pound of candi syrup and only use part of it?
     
    billandsuz and MrOH like this.
  7. minderbender

    minderbender Initiate (0) Jan 18, 2009 New York

    I have never used candi syrup and voted for 45 and 90 based purely on their descriptions.

    45: "D-45 is a rich translucent amber candi syrup with toffee, vanilla, and toasted flavors."

    90: "D-90 candi syrup adds flavors of subtle chocolate, toffee, and toasted bread flavors..."

    Those both sound really good to me! But of course they would, those are a vendor's descriptions. Help me out if you have any experience with these. What should I be watching out for? 45 sounds really delicious to me... what am I missing?

    Edited to add: I really am persuadable here. Happy to change my vote if you have a compelling argument.
     
  8. crcostel

    crcostel Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2006 Illinois

    Don't forget we also have a crystal to add which could be as dark as Special B.
     
  9. crcostel

    crcostel Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2006 Illinois

    From the website

    D-180 is our premium extra dark Belgian style Candi Syrup. It has the unmistakable flavors of fresh ground coffee, dark stone fruit, and toasted bread. D-180 is the basis for the perfect cloning of Westvleteren 12, Rochefort 10, and many other dark Belgian Ales. When you consider brewing specialty ales like these, consider the more authentic end result, superior flavor, darker color, and exceptional results of D-180.

    D-90 is by far the most universal of our Belgian style Candi Syrups and is made with pure Beet sugar. This syrup creates an unmistakable and subtle chocolate back-palate, toffee, and toasted bread flavors that make a dark Candi Syrup truly brew-worthy. This syrup will insure the caramel aroma and rich flavors of award winning Belgian style ales.

    D-45 is our rich translucent amber syrup. We've tested it in Chimay clone's and Belgian Brown Ale's. The unmistakable toffee, vanilla, and toasted flavors that are magically created from raw beet sugar are what make D-45 Candi Syrup uniquely aromatic and delicious. Exceedingly good in Brown Ales or medium Golden Ale's that require an aromatic nose and subtle flavor.

    http://www.candisyrup.com/products.html
     
  10. Naugled

    Naugled Defender (640) Sep 25, 2007 New York

    It lasts quite a long time. I've used D180 well over a year old after opening. I'll add left overs like D180 to RIS's or Quad's when I brew them.

    But that said, I prefer D90 for Dubbels. I may whip up a batch of homemade invert anyway. I'll make a few pounds and jar it.
     
  11. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,906) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    Just my 2 cents, but we should not feel beholden to any one guideline, and SRM seems to be the least concern. SRM 26 vs 16 is really not so critical. If you were dinged for appearance in a comp, you shouldn't lose more than a point on this one.
     
  12. crcostel

    crcostel Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2006 Illinois

    The SRM guide is 10-17 which seems crazy low to me. When's the last time you had a 10 SRM Dubbel?
     
  13. billandsuz

    billandsuz Devotee (463) Sep 1, 2004 New York

    If it doesn't have a D and a number count me out.
    And if I can't get my recipe to use the full pound move along.

    Completely wrong here but I swear only monks know how to use invert sugars and only the monks care to use anything except sugar syrup. And so it is with me.

    Homemade?
    Corn syrup?
    Honey?
    Are you effing here?

    I just don't have the desire to mess around with anything other than tradition when it comes to this adjunct. Someday I'll change.

    Not now.
    Cheers.
     
  14. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,906) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    Never? Earlier there was reference to a Belgian Amber, which I also never had, but should such a beer exist, in the strongish gravity range, perhaps that is what the guidelines are trying to capture?
     
  15. crcostel

    crcostel Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2006 Illinois

    Rare Vos? I'm not sure anyone would call that a dubbel
     
  16. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Aspirant (223) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    10-17 looks fine to me. Or, well... maybe slightly too light. Maybe should be 12-19. Something like that.
     
  17. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,906) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    Haven't had it since I lived in NY, closer to 20 yrs than 15, before I had ever heard of Trappist breweries. Anyhow, I was trying to come up with an explanation for why the guideline SRM seems so much lower than what most people think of as dubbels. Presumably something is in that Belgian-gravity-SRM space that someone construed as a dubbel. Or maybe there has been a persistent typographical error going back at least to the 2008 style guidelines. So maybe we should just Brew Like a Monk and throw away the guidelines.
     
  18. crcostel

    crcostel Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2006 Illinois

    Im sure there was a reason at some point. But for our AP/D I have no issue going a little off "guidelines"
     
  19. CarolusP

    CarolusP Initiate (0) Oct 22, 2015 Minnesota

    I thought so too. I'm certainly fine going outside of the guidelines. I haven't had Westmalle Dubbel in a couple years, but I seem to recall that looking sort of like a light porter. Definitely more than even 17 I think.
     
  20. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,931) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Maybe just make color (SRM) a poll selection.

    Cheers!
     
  21. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,962) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Per the stated rules, D-90 advances for further consideration, and D-180 may or may not, to be determined by the next poll.
     
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