Averagely Perfect IPA Project - Not a Poll (believe it or not)

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by VikeMan, Mar 5, 2013.

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  1. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,341) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    For those not familiar, this post relates to this thread and the ensuing polls...

    While the polls wind down with the dry hop questions, I went ahead and started crunching some remaining numbers. Here's a draft of the All Grain version:

    (This is not a request for recipe critique per se, which would be silly at this point. But if I have made an error somewhere, of course I will fix it.)

    Draft Recipe sans Dry Hops (TBD)...

    5 Gallons into Fermenter
    Target ABV: 6.5%
    Target OG: 1.062
    Target FG: 1.012
    Mash Efficiency: 70%
    Apparent Attenuation: 81%
    Recommended Mash Temp: 151F
    64 IBUs (per Tinseth Calc)

    Grain Bill:
    Two-Row Brewer's Malt - 11.78 lbs
    Crystal 40 - 0.64 lbs
    Carapils - 0.38 lbs

    Hop Schedule:
    60 Minutes
    --Magnum, 14% AA, 0.11 oz
    15 Minutes
    --Simcoe, 13% AA, 0.5 oz
    --Centennial, 11.5% AA, 0.5 oz
    --Cascade, 5.9% AA, 0.5 oz
    10 Minutes
    --Simcoe, 13% AA, 0.5 oz
    --Centennial, 11.5% AA, 0.5 oz
    --Cascade, 5.9% AA, 0.5 oz
    5 Minutes
    --Simcoe, 13% AA, 0.75 oz
    --Centennial, 11.5% AA, 0.5 oz
    --Cascade, 5.9% AA, 0.5 oz
    --Simcoe, 13% AA, 1.0 oz
    --Centennial, 11.5% AA, 0.75 oz
    --Cascade, 5.9% AA, 0.75 oz
    Dry Hop

    Wyeast 1056/WLP001/US-05

    - This recipe is for 5 gallons of wort going into the fermenter. With such a massive hopload, absorption matters, and it affects a lot of things. Read on.
    - This recipe assumes pellet hops, with a 10% bonus utilization due to pellet form, and a wort absorption of 3.2 ounces wort per ounce of hops. The Standard Tinseth formula assumes leaf hops (without the 10% bonus utilization.) If you will use pellets, but don't believe in the pellet bonus (or believe in a different bonus), adjust. YMMV. The reason this recipe was built with pellet hops is that I am assuming they will be more available to most people.
    - If you use Whole Leaf hops, this may change your utilization assumptions and your hop wort absorption assumptions. YMMV. Adjust as necessary.
    - I used my own boil off rate (in conjunction with hop wort absorption) to determine a starting wort volume, which impacts hop utilization. YMMV. Adjust as necessary. Use your software. You paid for it. If it's freeware, good luck!
    - Anything you change that relates to absorption will change the total fermentables you need to get out of your mash. So you may need to adjust the grain bill up/down.
    - If your hops have different Alpha Acid percentages, adjust as necessary.
    - This recipe assumes 70% Mash Efficiency, a little higher than BYO recipes (for example) assume, but probably closer to the average efficiency on this forum based on what I've seen over the years. YMMV. Adjust as necessary.
    - I need a beer. YMMV. Adjust as necessary.
  2. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California

    Too much crystal, not enough late hops :grimacing:
  3. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Initiate (0) May 21, 2010 Texas

    Great analysis man. It's very close to my personal analysis, which I've posted once (and partly twice). My own AA% numbers are slightly different but not off by very much.
  4. utahbeerdude

    utahbeerdude Disciple (374) May 2, 2006 Utah

    So.... YMMV. Got it! :slight_smile:

    BTW, does anybody have a good number for wort absorption by whole hops?
  5. OddNotion

    OddNotion Devotee (478) Nov 1, 2009 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    Late hops = CITRAAAAAAAA????

    Thanks Vike for putting all this info together, this is a fun project and has taken a lot of patience and dedication on your part!
    MADhombrewer likes this.
  6. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Initiate (0) May 21, 2010 Texas

    p.s. don't forget the "American" part

    USA! USA! USA! :sunglasses:
    OddNotion likes this.
  7. LordFoul

    LordFoul Initiate (168) Oct 7, 2012 South Carolina

    Phenomenal work... seeing this project through, with all of the threads must have been quite a bit of work. I look forward to brewing this once it is all said and done, and posting the results.
    Eriktheipaman likes this.
  8. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Initiate (0) May 21, 2010 Texas

    The results of the beers everybody brewed as a result of the project will finalize the project's friggin' awesomeness. :sunglasses:
    utahbeerdude likes this.
  9. jlordi12

    jlordi12 Zealot (506) Jun 8, 2011 Massachusetts
    Beer Trader

    Thanks for putting this together. Very cool project and I look forward to trying it out.
  10. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,341) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    This is system/process dependent, but I average a loss of about 8 oz wort per ounce of whole leaf hops. Technically a lot of that is really wort being 'trapped' rather than actually absorbed, but the result is the same.
  11. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Aspirant (267) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia

    3g of Magnum?
  12. PortLargo

    PortLargo Devotee (460) Oct 19, 2012 Florida

    My calculations are almost identical with what you came up with. I've already ordered my grain and bulk hops, and anticipate having it started before the dry-hop polls close.

    But can the small amount of magnum be equaled by substituting an addition to the flavoring hops? I see 0.11 oz of magnum for 60 minutes being very close to 0.25 oz of Simcoe for 15 min. From a practical point, this would make more sense (less to order, less waste). Is it carved in stone that bittering hops must added for 60 minutes? Is it possible to get all your IBUs from the last 15 minutes?

    This is not an attempt to sharp-shoot the recipe. I'm just trying to get a better understanding of how to massage the IBU numbers.
  13. DNuggs

    DNuggs Aspirant (281) Apr 13, 2006 Massachusetts
    Beer Trader

    With regards to flameout/whirlpool/hopstand additions, do we have a set amount of time to perform said hopstand or is it a free-for-all? What about people using hopbacks? Any opinions?
  14. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Initiate (0) May 21, 2010 Texas

    On one computer I get just over 3g magnum, on the other I get just under a six grams of magnum. Dang beersmith has too many parameters, so they're not perfectly in agreement, but they're pretty darn close. :rolling_eyes:

    One day both my computers will match :astonished:
  15. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,341) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    It's possible, but then it wouldn't quite be the recipe that was voted for. But certainly, anyone can brew what they want.
  16. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,341) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    From poll #27...

  17. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,341) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    Addendum: I will be doing a whole leaf hop version of the recipe, and also an extract plus steeped grain option of each version, so that anyone who is unsure of the math or their software will have something to compare to.

    Edit: Might as well mention it here, in case anyone wants to object... for the extract/steeped grains options of each version, I'm planning to replace both the 2-row and the Carapils with Briess Golden Light DME. The reason is that the DME already contains Carapils. I thought it would be better to recommend that than to just say generic DME, and leave people guessing as to any particular brand's carapils content, which often is not published.
  18. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,593) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Supporter Subscriber

    From poll 27: "This addition is hops added at or after flameout, but before fermentation. Individual system capabilities will vary widely. Do what you want to/can do. "

    Does this mean no prescribed flameout/whirlpool time?
  19. DNuggs

    DNuggs Aspirant (281) Apr 13, 2006 Massachusetts
    Beer Trader

    I take it to mean that you can do whatever you want....I'll probably end up doing a 20 minutes whirlpool at around 190 and then hitting the chiller
  20. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,341) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    Yep. Wort cooling/non-cooling times and methods are so different system to system that I didn't see much point in it. It seems like an area where imposing order might actually create chaos. I had also said in an early thread that I won't be asking any questions potentially leading to a recipe that can't be brewed on my system. :slight_smile:
    pweis909 likes this.
  21. wspscott

    wspscott Savant (980) May 25, 2006 Kentucky

    So I am definitely brewing this and I am thinking about doing a similar beer (same malts/hops) but closer to what I would have chosen for a "Average Perfect IPA" for comparison.

    Enough people have talked about brewing/exchanging so when do we start figuring out how to do that without breaking the bank on shipping :slight_smile:
  22. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,341) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    Stay tuned. I believe you may be seeing something from Naugled on that in the next few days.
  23. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Moderator (1,081) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon

    I've got the recipe input for my system at 5.5 gallons in the fermenter so after dry hopping and trub/yeast losses I will have 5 gallons in the keg. Looking forward to brewing this one, but I need to re-brew my Black IPA first to get it into a competition in April.
  24. DAllspaw

    DAllspaw Initiate (0) Nov 7, 2009 Indiana

    numbers match mine very well using a hodgepodge of calculators. Thanks much for preparing this, what will become my brew day notes. Just curious, as this will only be my 2nd AG batch and 8th overall - how does the flavor and or bitterness profile differ in the end product when so many of the IBUs are coming so late in the boil? Bear in mind my recipes to date have been the standard 1 oz for 60 minutes. I am guessing a more pronounced presentation of the hops in both flavor and aroma, but does the bitterness register different on the palate? Still much to learn....
  25. mattbk

    mattbk Devotee (467) Dec 12, 2011 New York

    Yes, the bitterness will definitely register differently - the flavor derived from preserving the hop oils will combat and minimize the bitterness. We never really spoke about water chemistry in this poll - a higher SO4/Cl ratio will help to emphasize that bitterness and make it a bit sharper.
    DAllspaw likes this.
  26. udubdawg

    udubdawg Initiate (0) Dec 11, 2006 Kansas

    [obligatory "you started this January 4th? Your IPA is old and a shell of its former self!" post]

    seriously though, great work. Looks fantastic.

  27. OddNotion

    OddNotion Devotee (478) Nov 1, 2009 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    Its practically a light barleywine at this point :confused:
    barfdiggs likes this.
  28. spry

    spry Initiate (0) Oct 8, 2009 Michigan

    Great work, looking forward to brewing this.
  29. mporter13

    mporter13 Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2011 Oregon

    I think I'll scale this down to 1 3 gallon batch, but I'll definitely give it a whirl.
  30. wspscott

    wspscott Savant (980) May 25, 2006 Kentucky

    Sounds good, after all this voting I want to see what other people end up with, not just my own.
  31. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Moderator (1,229) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Subscriber Beer Trader

    Sounds good, again.

    I've got a bit of a backlog of beers to brew, but I'll toss this one up near the front of the list, as I think it'll be fun to do, and have enjoyed voting and bitching about what we all should do! :wink:
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