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Averagely Perfect NorthEast IPA - Poll #33 - General Water Profile

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by VikeMan, Jul 14, 2016.

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Select a general water profile.

Poll closed Jul 16, 2016.

  1. Low Chloride, Low Sulfates, with all the hardness from calcium

    2 vote(s)
    6.3%

  2. High Chloride, High Sulfates, with all the hardness from calcium

    1 vote(s)
    3.1%

  3. Low Chloride, High Sulfates, with all the hardness from calcium

    1 vote(s)
    3.1%

  4. High Chloride, Low Sulfates, with all the hardness from calcium

    20 vote(s)
    62.5%

  5. Low Chloride, Low Sulfates, with hardness from calcium and magnesium

    1 vote(s)
    3.1%

  6. High Chloride, High Sulfates, with hardness from calcium and magnesium

    5 vote(s)
    15.6%

  7. Low Chloride, High Sulfates, with hardness from calcium and magnesium

    1 vote(s)
    3.1%

  8. High Chloride, Low Sulfates, with hardness from calcium and magnesium

    1 vote(s)
    3.1%
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  1. VikeMan

    VikeMan Pooh-Bah (2,993) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    -> Poll #32 <- determined that the fermentation temperature will be 68F. This poll will begin to build an overall water profile. I will approach the water profile polls as if the water is being built from distilled/RO water. Those wanting to use tap water can (of course) either ignore the results or build up/dilute it as appropriate (if possible).

    Feel free to include comments about other aspects of the water you believe should be polled. The current plan is to start with this poll, regarding some general characteristics, then lock in specific numbers, and then (if warranted) explore other aspects suggested. In this poll, consider "Low" to mean 100 ppm or less, and "High" to mean 75 ppm or more. (Yes, there is some overlap, so that the winning general profile will leave some room for more "Medium" concentrations when locking in specific concentrations in the next poll.)

    This will be a straight plurality poll. Combinations are unique.

    For those looking ahead, the next poll(s) will continue to look at the water profile.

    This poll will be open for 48 hours.

    If you have issues with or suggestions for methodologies used in this project, please send them via beermail. Let's keep the threads themselves on topic to the question at hand and not about how you would have asked the question differently. Lobbying for votes and intelligent discussion of each choice's relative merits is encouraged.

    The Averagely Perfect NorthEast IPA Recipe so far...

    5 Gallons
    ABV: 6.5%
    OG: 1.062
    FG: 1.012
    Mash Temperature (recommended): 152F
    Mash Length (recommended): 60 minutes
    IBUs: 63 (extended Tinseth)
    Fermentation Temp: 68F

    Grain Bill:
    North American 2-Row Brewer's Malt (77%)
    Wheat Malt (10%)
    Flaked Oats (10%)
    Honey Malt (3%)

    Hop Schedule:
    10 Minutes: 1 ounce Citra (12.7% AA), 1 ounce Galaxy (15% AA)
    Flameout/Whirlpool/Hopstand: 1.25 ounces Citra (12.7% AA), 1.5 ounces Galaxy (15% AA), 1.25 ounces Mosaic (12% AA) (modeled at 170F for 15 minutes)
    Fermentation Dry Hop @ 70% complete fermentation (SG @ ~1.027): 1 ounce Citra, 1.5 ounces Galaxy, and 1 ounce Mosaic
    Traditional Dry Hop: 1.25 ounces Citra, 1.5 ounces Galaxy, 1 ounce Mosaic

    Yeast Strain: Wyeast 1318
     
    #1 VikeMan, Jul 14, 2016
  2. holzwama

    holzwama Initiate (0) Aug 27, 2015 Minnesota

    Not voting, but would love someone to tell me what to do with my water. I have a full profile of it. I even bought calcium, but didn't use it last time. I'm brewing this weekend, so I'd like to try some water manipulation.
     
    #2 holzwama, Jul 14, 2016
  3. scurvy311

    scurvy311 Savant (1,099) Dec 3, 2005 Louisiana

    I did a beer in April very similar to this one and followed the Averagely Perfect IPA water recipe from a few years ago.

    Give or take ppm:
    200 SO4
    60 Cl
    115 Ca

    I think the beer came out very good. I'm no water expert by any stretch, but I felt like this was a good starting point for an IPA, unless someone has reason to adjust things to accentuate or deminish certain attributes. I have no idea what commercial examples of this beer do to their water.

    As it stands, high chloride/low sulphate has a lead, is it typical for NEIPAs to have water that, generally speaking, accentuates the malt over the hops? I'm asking out of curiosity/ignorance.
     
    #3 scurvy311, Jul 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
  4. VikeMan

    VikeMan Pooh-Bah (2,993) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Hmmm...I don't think the APA IPA polls included a water recipe, but those numbers look like they'd be pretty good for the APA IPA.
     
    #4 VikeMan, Jul 14, 2016
  5. scurvy311

    scurvy311 Savant (1,099) Dec 3, 2005 Louisiana

    [​IMG]
    They may have been built into BrewCipher? I'm not sure otherwise. Did I put those in there? I don't remember. For what it is worth, low chloride/high sulphate, calcium hardness gets my vote.
     
    #5 scurvy311, Jul 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
    PortLargo likes this.
  6. VikeMan

    VikeMan Pooh-Bah (2,993) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Ah, they are. No wonder I thought the numbers looked good! They're the ones I used when I brewed the APAIPA. I forgot that I added them.
     
    #6 VikeMan, Jul 14, 2016
    scurvy311 likes this.
  7. scurvy311

    scurvy311 Savant (1,099) Dec 3, 2005 Louisiana

    So to reiterate, as it stands, high chloride/low sulphate has a lead, is it typical for NEIPAs to have water that, generally speaking, accentuates the malt over the hops? I'm asking out of curiosity/ignorance.
     
    #7 scurvy311, Jul 14, 2016
  8. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania

    IMO High Chloride Low Sulfate is pretty critical for this style. 1318 in its own right adds a lot of body/fullness on its own and the water profile just boosts that mouthfeel even more. Giving these beers a big creamy mouthfeel that plays off the high hopping rates nicely. Helps make these beers taste "juicy" which is a descriptor I don't like....but it's really the only one I can think of.

    I wouldn't say that it accentuates the malt really at all. Even though historically high chloride levels are/were thought to do this. This beer is just a beautiful showcase of hops and like no other beer smells and tastes like a bag of hop pellets covered in mango juice....type of thing.
     
    #8 psnydez86, Jul 15, 2016
    SFACRKnight, Soneast and scurvy311 like this.
  9. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,884) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    2 questions for everyone voting here (with the caveat that I have never had a NEIPA, nor brewed one).

    1) ever brewed one with "standard" IPA water, i.e. high sulfates? Follow on question, ever brewed one with a "pils type" water?

    2) what's up with the votes for magnesium? My readings suggest that adding magnesium is often not necessary/detrimental to beer, but I'm not sure where I have read that.
     
    #9 wspscott, Jul 15, 2016
    MrOH likes this.
  10. scurvy311

    scurvy311 Savant (1,099) Dec 3, 2005 Louisiana

    Cool. I'm game for that. I'm just looking forward to this being over so I can slip this brew into my schedule.
     
    #10 scurvy311, Jul 15, 2016
    psnydez86 likes this.
  11. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,212) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    My water is soft, very pils like. mouthfeel on my neipas ate still velvety and pillowy.
     
    #11 SFACRKnight, Jul 15, 2016
    psnydez86 and wspscott like this.
  12. CurtFromHershey

    CurtFromHershey Initiate (0) Oct 4, 2012 Minnesota

    I'm actually pretty shocked that I'm the only vote for soft water with no added magnesium
     
    #12 CurtFromHershey, Jul 15, 2016
  13. utahbeerdude

    utahbeerdude Maven (1,374) May 2, 2006 Utah

    I've done one NE IPA. Water was 50/50 Cl to SO4 (at 125 ppm each). The beer was awesome, and I thought it was quite juicy, but I've never had any other example of the style (commercial or homebrewed) for comparison. I'd certainly be willing to go for relatively more chloride. Cheers!
     
    #13 utahbeerdude, Jul 16, 2016
    wspscott likes this.
  14. VikeMan

    VikeMan Pooh-Bah (2,993) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    High Chloride, Low Sulfates, with all the hardness from calcium, in a landslide.
     
    #14 VikeMan, Jul 16, 2016
    kcq101 likes this.
  15. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,884) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    #15 wspscott, Jul 16, 2016
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