Averagely Perfect NorthEast IPA - Poll #34 - Specific Concentrations for Chloride and Sulfates

Since you asked . . . I counted 13.25 ounces of hops, of which 4.5 are Citra. This will be a Citra BOMB (think you used enough dynamite Butch?). FTR I like Citra and use it regularly, but guys there has to be a limit. I would like to see this 4.5 figure halved, drop one DH addition and cut the FO by half. I realize reducing hops probably isn't going to be too popular . . . but I see it as the only way to let the other hops peek through. From the practical aspect; as the hop bill stands now the retail cost (Northern Brewer) is $38.25. That's PDE for a brew that'll have a one dimensional hop character.

 

I second PortLargo's concern regarding the relative amount of Citra. I'd like to see more (potential) balance in the final product.

 

If I were to brew this I would change the Citra additions as follows:
10 min: 1/2 oz
FO: 1/2 oz
DH1: zero
DH2: 1 ounce (or flip/flop with DH1)

This is total of 2.0 ounces of Citra which IMO will make a presence. Right now I'm drinking an IPA that's 2.5 oz Citra, 2.0 oz Amarillo, 2.0 oz Mosiac and the Citra is clearly dominate:


From your chart in Poll #29, this is a reduction in IBUs of 11.3. Personally I would whirlpool another 5 minutes (which I would do anyway) and call it even but in the spirit of respecting the voters it could easily be added back with a pinch of Magnum/Warrior/Hop Extract at 60 minutes.

 

I third the motion to reduce the citra to 2 ounces with the IBUs being replaced with an equal amount of galaxy.

Also, VikeMan - can we use this thread to talk about mash pH?

 

I had been banging the "need way more galaxy than citra" drum for a long time, but there was push back because of the price and availability of galaxy. Yes this will be very citra-forward, but seeing as one of the leading examples of the style is 100% citra (SoS), I don't think it is off style to have 4.some odd ounces of citra in what is supposed to be a tropical fruit bomb.

 

I formally second PortLargo's proposal.

 

I'd like to see a vote on PortLargo's proposal as well. And ideally some discussion about the various merits of the competing recipes.

 

I'm not sure what side I'll be on, but I love Citra beers. During these polls, I've brewed 2 beers, one with Citra and Nuggetzilla in equal amounts that wasn't a citra-bomb and currently have a Columbus (early and 10 minute boil only), Citra, Galaxy and it is balanced as well. Earlier I made a Citra, Mosaic, Azacca beer that was awesome (equal amounts FWH, 10 min, FO, dry hop).
Saturday, I just did a Citra/ Cascade beer with this grain bill, and 090 yeast (store guy convinced me to try).
Also, I'm not sure SOS is the standard people are going for with this @CurtFromHershey . I'm thinking more along the lines of Trillium and Other Half. Not saying SOS isn't a great beer, but I'm thinking in a different direction.

For me I usually follow the hop timing that was voted on and to keep things easier for me usually 1 oz of each hop I"m using.

Just my $.02

You are suggesting
Hop Schedule:
10 Minutes: 0.5 ounce Citra (12.7% AA), 1 ounce Galaxy (15% AA)
Flameout/Whirlpool/Hopstand: 0.5 ounces Citra (12.7% AA), 1.5 ounces Galaxy (15% AA), 1.25 ounces Mosaic (12% AA) (modeled at 170F for 15 minutes)
Fermentation Dry Hop @ 70% complete fermentation (SG @ ~1.027): 1.5 ounces Galaxy, and 1 ounce Mosaic
Traditional Dry Hop: 1.0 ounces Citra, 1.5 ounces Galaxy, 1 ounce Mosaic

On a side note, when does this recipe transfer to secondary?

 

I am more than open to voting on a hop bill modification. I had some concerns about Citra being too overpowring. But I would be opposed of completely dropping off the Citra fermentation dry hop, as PortLargo suggested.

I feel that the voting determined that we'd like to use Citra in both dry hop phases. The current contention/remorse is that we're using too much Citra. So, IMO, I think we should frame the discussion to determine how much to reduce Citra in our established hop additions without eliminating any of them completely. Unless, of course, there is some particular remorse about using Citra in the fermentation dry hop. If so, I vote "Nay" in this regard.

 

Actually I suggested 1 oz total Citra for dh'ing. I proposed it in the traditional dry hop but there would be nothing wrong with the earlier addition or splitting it up (1/2 oz early - 1/2 traditional).

Reference making up for the lost bitterness: To me it would make more sense for extended whirlpooling . . . 15 minutes seems like it's too short. Who wants to spend 30+ bucks on hops and throw most of the AA/oils out in the trash? Why not recapture the lost IBUs in a way that should provide more flavor?

Practical Brewing: Pretty sure most brewers "massage" the final recipe to make it more practical. I.E, who measures their hops down to a quarter of an ounce? I'll measured out 1/2 ounce but overall you would like for the hop bill to reflect even 1 ounce measures because that's how they are packaged. If a trace of hops are needed for 60 minute bittering most brewers would use whatever is open . . . in this case Citra, Galaxy, or Mosiac would serve equally well. If someone had Magnum or Hop Extract in bulk it would make sense to use that.

That all said, my final clamoring would be to change as follows:
10M: 1/2 oz Citra - - - 1.0 Galazy
FO: 1/2 oz Citra - - - 1.5 Galaxy - - - 1.25 Mosiac Whirlpool for 20 minutes to make up for IBUs lost in Citra reduction*
DH1: 1/2 oz Citra - - - 1.5 Galaxy - - - 1.0 Mosiac
DH2: 1/2 oz Citra - - - 1.5 Galaxy - - - 1.0 Mosiac

Total Hop Bill: 2.0 Citra - 5.5 Galaxy - 3.25 Mosiac (secretly I'd round Mosiac to 3.0 and whirlpool for 21 minutes)

In my experience, two ounces of Citra will make it's presence known. It think it's more desirable for the first reaction to be "hmmm, complex hop profile . . . probably some Citra mixed in with some other interesting flavors". This beats the Butch/Sundance approach of blowing up the train.

*For @VikeMan : I think a 20 minute whirlpool will make up for the lost IBUs, but my software probably differs from Brewcipher. If need be add the FO hops at 175° or add/subtract a minute or two (i.e. hand waving). Ideally you can put this in another poll and solicit more comments rather than a take-it-or-leave-it vote. That makes a little more work for you, but heh, up until now you've had it pretty easy.

 

I don't think the amount of citra is a big problem. I like the way this recipe process works and how it gets us all to do something a little different. So I don't really have a strong opinion.
But maybe just have another poll asking if we should revisit the citra amounts, yes/no, and see what's up.

 

next poll

https://www.beeradvocate.com/commun...heast-ipa-poll-35-change-hop-schedule.436003/