Averagely Perfect Saison - Poll #38 - 60 Minute Addition Hop Variety(s)

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by VikeMan, Mar 11, 2015.

?

Choose the Hop Variety(s) for the 60 Minute Addition

Poll closed Mar 13, 2015.
  1. Saaz

    27.8%
  2. Hallertau

    25.0%
  3. Saaz and Hallertau

    47.2%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,962) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Poll #37 determined that the Flameout/Whirlpool/Hopstand hop addition qtys will be 0.75 oz of Saaz and 0.75 oz of Hallertau. This poll (#38) will determine which of Saaz and/or Hallertau will be used in the 60 minute addition. The potential combinations are unique. Straight plurality wins.

    For those looking ahead, the next poll (if necessary) will determine the amount(s) of each hop for the 60 minute addition, to hit a total of 24 Tinseth IBUs for the recipe. If only one hop is selected for the 60 minute addition, I'll compute the balancer qty without a poll.

    This poll will be open for 48 hours.

    (For those who don't know what I'm talking about, see these threads for the first two beers we did (and the bazillion ensuing polls and the final recipes...
    http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/the-averagely-perfect-american-ipa-project.59552/
    http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/averagely-perfect-american-stout-poll-1-abv.131209/ )

    Issues with methodology? Take 'em to beermail please.

    The Averagely Perfect Saison so far...

    Batch Size: 5 Gallons
    ABV: 5.7%
    OG: 1.045
    FG: 1.002
    Mash Recommendation: Single Infusion @ 150F, 60 Minutes, no Mashout
    Assumed Mash Efficiency: 70%
    90 Minute Boil
    IBUs: 24

    Grain Bill:
    Belgian Pilsner Malt (68%)
    Flaked Wheat (17%)
    Vienna malt (15%)

    Yeasts:
    WLP565/Wyeast 3724 at beginning of fermentation
    WLP644, 0.5 Liter Starter Recommended, added to primary when beer/wort reaches gravity of 1.033

    Hops:
    60 Minutes - Saaz and/or Hallertau (TBD)
    10 Minutes - 0.75 ounces Saaz , 0.75 ounces Hallertau
    Flameout/Whirlpool/Hopstand - 0.75 ounces Saaz, 0.75 ounces Hallertau
     
  2. Theheroguy

    Theheroguy Initiate (0) Jun 29, 2012 Maryland

    Hallertau lets do it
     
    MrOH likes this.
  3. epic1856

    epic1856 Initiate (0) Aug 11, 2006 California

    MrOH likes this.
  4. ChrisMyhre

    ChrisMyhre Initiate (0) Sep 15, 2013 Massachusetts

    Interestingly enough .75 of each get's very close to 24 IBUs.
     
    Slatetank likes this.
  5. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,906) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    I voted for both. This is probably my point of departure due to ingredients on hand: I will add both regardless of the outcome of this vote. I've got a bunch of one oz packets of saaz and hallertau at 3% and 3.1% AA respectively. The later additions will require 1.5 bags of each. If I do a 1.5 oz bittering addition of hallertau and a half oz bittering addition of saaz, I won't have any partial hop bags and I'll come in at 25.5 calculated ibus, right about where this needs to be.

    My IBU calc do not account for the estimated ibus in a whirlpool that Beersmith includes. I know Vikeman has rule that the Tinseth model, which does not account for these ibus, is to be used. However, I do have a question about flameout/whirl pool/hopstand: will we vote on how to do it, e.g., what temperature to add at, how long to wait, etc? I suppose it may be best to leave to the individual depending on equipment (different chiller types, hopbacks, etc.) but thought I'd ask @VikeMan
     
  6. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,962) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    As with the previous beers, I don't intend to poll for FO/WP/HS process details, for the reasons you mentioned.
     
    pweis909 and ChrisMyhre like this.
  7. wspscott

    wspscott Champion (883) May 25, 2006 Kentucky

    We are assuming the 10 minute addition will add IBUs but not the FO addition, right?

    Hallertau sounds good to me for 60 min
     
  8. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,962) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Yep. Standard Tinseth all the way.
     
  9. Daddio_DX

    Daddio_DX Initiate (0) Mar 11, 2015

    Try Citra hop, and wyeast 3711
     
  10. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,962) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    A little late. But thanks.
     
    pweis909 and jbakajust1 like this.
  11. epic1856

    epic1856 Initiate (0) Aug 11, 2006 California

    What are we looking at, about 5 IBUs at 10 Min? Assuming 5 AA%.
     
  12. wspscott

    wspscott Champion (883) May 25, 2006 Kentucky

    I haven't plugged anything in yet, but that sounds about right. FWIW, I have a pound of Saaz in the freezer that is 3.1%, so definitely not a lot of IBUs at 10 minutes.
     
  13. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Crusader (729) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon

    I'm with @pweis909 using both. I am a creature of cost effectiveness. We are at 1.5 oz of each so far, why buy more of just one of the hop and end up with left overs of both?
     
    SFACRKnight likes this.
  14. epic1856

    epic1856 Initiate (0) Aug 11, 2006 California

    I see your point. My lhbs sells hops in 2 oz increments. With 1.5 in already in play i dont want to buy another 2 oz package if I dont have to. I changed my vote to both. You're looking at about 25 IBUs using 1 oz (60 min at 3.5% AA)
     
  15. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

    I've jumped ship! Even all around, currently.
     
  16. wspscott

    wspscott Champion (883) May 25, 2006 Kentucky

    Because both are good hops and it almost never makes sense (from a cost effective POV) to buy less than a pound?
     
    PortLargo and jbakajust1 like this.
  17. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Poo-Bah (1,819) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Society Trader

    If I brewed more lagers I would have both. buuuuuuuuut I don't so lhbs here I come.
     
  18. wspscott

    wspscott Champion (883) May 25, 2006 Kentucky

    How about a pseudo-lager? Something like Pils malt and US05 fermented on the cool side. You could even over-pitch by a bit to minimize ester formation, then a long "lagering". Or just do a blond ale :slight_smile:
     
    SFACRKnight and pweis909 like this.
  19. epic1856

    epic1856 Initiate (0) Aug 11, 2006 California

    How many more polls will there be? Are we looking at another 5-6 or more like a dozen? Just trying to get a sense when I can start brewing it.
     
  20. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,962) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Almost there.
     
  21. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Initiate (0) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia

    I have both on hand. More hallertau than saaz but I'm game for however it goes. I'm ready to brew this
     
  22. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,906) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    I don't disagree. The value of bulk buys depends on how often you brew and how prepared you are to seal up and preserve bags of hops. I brewed 10 batches last year with an average of 3.1 oz of hops per batch. If I had a lb of Hallertau and Saaz, those would have been the only hops I would have brewed with last year. Or else I've got to commit to storing hops for longer than a year? I don't have a vacuum sealer, so that's not going to work well.
     
    zimm421 likes this.
  23. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,962) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Both it is.
     
  24. wspscott

    wspscott Champion (883) May 25, 2006 Kentucky

    Yeah, if I did not have a vacuum sealer, I would not be buying hops by the pound. I got a deal on a small one a couple years ago, paid for itself very quickly.
     
  25. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,906) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    So when you (or others with vacuum sealers) buy hops by the pound, how long do you take to get through a pound? Do you have hops in your freezers that go back 2, 3, 4 years? Are they still good?
     
  26. wspscott

    wspscott Champion (883) May 25, 2006 Kentucky

    I try to limit the number of different hops that I have opened. I trust places like hopsdirect to package well and I have some unopened packages from a couple years ago that I expect will be fine when I finally use them up this summer. Once I open a package, I split it into 2 packages to minimize oxygen pickup. I think the longest I have had my packaged hops in the freezer is 12-18 months, if the seal is good, the hops are. For example, I just used some Nelson Sauvin that I had sealed about 15 months ago, they smelled like good hops and based on past experience the beer will be fine.
     
    pweis909 likes this.
  27. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,906) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Society

    That's promising. I've thought about getting a vacuum sealer, but want to spend more time thinking about what my strategy for using one would be. Does anyone out there have recommendations for bittering vs. aroma hops, for example. In other words, does longevity in bitterness parallel aroma, exceed aroma, or fall short of aroma? Is there a strategy to what hops you'll buy in bulk?
     
  28. PortLargo

    PortLargo Devotee (484) Oct 19, 2012 Florida

    There is little science that addresses this, but general opinion is hop oils decrease somewhat parallel to acid levels. There is a HSI that helps determine how much alpha acid remains and I use that as a guide in boosting levels in an attempt to reach original oil levels.

    Not really, the price break is so good it pays (to me) to get 'em while they're fresh and if a small amount is tossed you're still ahead of the game. Example: Just saw 8 oz of Columbus for $8 while a 16 oz package was $11 . . . so I'm swimming in Columbus. I feel it's important to buy early in the hop-year from a reputable distributor so I can manage the storage. I rarely buy an ounce or two from a LHBS, too risky.

    The food saver (and lots of bags) is the key to make this work. When I open a pound bag I re-bag into something like an 8 ouncer and a couple of 2's. You can also seal in a mason jar, but I've found it's the opening/re-opening that does the damage. For me a brew day is too important to risk iffy hops. For anything over a year old I'll drop 4-8 pellets in a bud light, re-seal, then drink a week later. Your nose/palate will tell you what's going on. Some hops hang in there while some are duds.

    For this recipe the Saaz/Hallerau bitterness could easily be duplicated by about ΒΌ oz of Magnum or done even easier with just over one milliliter of hop extract.
     
    pweis909 likes this.
  29. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Initiate (0) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia


    I hoard hops like I do beer.

    I have hops from 2012 still that are fine.. In my mind they aren't prime, but I have used them, and being vac sealed and even some still nitrogen flushed and frozen.. no real issues.

    I have hop extract in syringes in the fridge all sealed up, and it holds up really, really well for bittering. I dont buy hops for pure bittering anymore. If they can, it's a bonus.
     
    pweis909 likes this.
  30. wspscott

    wspscott Champion (883) May 25, 2006 Kentucky

    I try to buy all my hops in bulk and I try to plan out a brewing schedule so they get opened in a reasonable order, but I don't really worry about it. One thing to consider, a pound of leaf hops takes up a lot of room, 8 pounds uses a big chunk of a chest freezer. I mostly buy pellets so I can fit other things in my freezer.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.