Averagely Perfect Saison - Poll #38 - 60 Minute Addition Hop Variety(s)

Hallertau lets do it

 

Hallertau, based on Hop Union Data is tends to have higher aa% as well as a lower cohumulone than saaz.

https://www.hopunion.com/german-hallertau-mittelfrh/

https://www.hopunion.com/czech-saaz/

 

Interestingly enough .75 of each get's very close to 24 IBUs.

 

I voted for both. This is probably my point of departure due to ingredients on hand: I will add both regardless of the outcome of this vote. I've got a bunch of one oz packets of saaz and hallertau at 3% and 3.1% AA respectively. The later additions will require 1.5 bags of each. If I do a 1.5 oz bittering addition of hallertau and a half oz bittering addition of saaz, I won't have any partial hop bags and I'll come in at 25.5 calculated ibus, right about where this needs to be.

My IBU calc do not account for the estimated ibus in a whirlpool that Beersmith includes. I know Vikeman has rule that the Tinseth model, which does not account for these ibus, is to be used. However, I do have a question about flameout/whirl pool/hopstand: will we vote on how to do it, e.g., what temperature to add at, how long to wait, etc? I suppose it may be best to leave to the individual depending on equipment (different chiller types, hopbacks, etc.) but thought I'd ask @VikeMan

 

We are assuming the 10 minute addition will add IBUs but not the FO addition, right?

Hallertau sounds good to me for 60 min

 

Try Citra hop, and wyeast 3711

 

What are we looking at, about 5 IBUs at 10 Min? Assuming 5 AA%.

 

I haven't plugged anything in yet, but that sounds about right. FWIW, I have a pound of Saaz in the freezer that is 3.1%, so definitely not a lot of IBUs at 10 minutes.

 

I'm with @pweis909 using both. I am a creature of cost effectiveness. We are at 1.5 oz of each so far, why buy more of just one of the hop and end up with left overs of both?

 

I see your point. My lhbs sells hops in 2 oz increments. With 1.5 in already in play i dont want to buy another 2 oz package if I dont have to. I changed my vote to both. You're looking at about 25 IBUs using 1 oz (60 min at 3.5% AA)

 

I've jumped ship! Even all around, currently.

 

Because both are good hops and it almost never makes sense (from a cost effective POV) to buy less than a pound?

 

If I brewed more lagers I would have both. buuuuuuuuut I don't so lhbs here I come.

 

How about a pseudo-lager? Something like Pils malt and US05 fermented on the cool side. You could even over-pitch by a bit to minimize ester formation, then a long "lagering". Or just do a blond ale

 

How many more polls will there be? Are we looking at another 5-6 or more like a dozen? Just trying to get a sense when I can start brewing it.

 

I have both on hand. More hallertau than saaz but I'm game for however it goes. I'm ready to brew this

 

I don't disagree. The value of bulk buys depends on how often you brew and how prepared you are to seal up and preserve bags of hops. I brewed 10 batches last year with an average of 3.1 oz of hops per batch. If I had a lb of Hallertau and Saaz, those would have been the only hops I would have brewed with last year. Or else I've got to commit to storing hops for longer than a year? I don't have a vacuum sealer, so that's not going to work well.

 

Yeah, if I did not have a vacuum sealer, I would not be buying hops by the pound. I got a deal on a small one a couple years ago, paid for itself very quickly.

 

So when you (or others with vacuum sealers) buy hops by the pound, how long do you take to get through a pound? Do you have hops in your freezers that go back 2, 3, 4 years? Are they still good?

 

I try to limit the number of different hops that I have opened. I trust places like hopsdirect to package well and I have some unopened packages from a couple years ago that I expect will be fine when I finally use them up this summer. Once I open a package, I split it into 2 packages to minimize oxygen pickup. I think the longest I have had my packaged hops in the freezer is 12-18 months, if the seal is good, the hops are. For example, I just used some Nelson Sauvin that I had sealed about 15 months ago, they smelled like good hops and based on past experience the beer will be fine.

 

That's promising. I've thought about getting a vacuum sealer, but want to spend more time thinking about what my strategy for using one would be. Does anyone out there have recommendations for bittering vs. aroma hops, for example. In other words, does longevity in bitterness parallel aroma, exceed aroma, or fall short of aroma? Is there a strategy to what hops you'll buy in bulk?

 

There is little science that addresses this, but general opinion is hop oils decrease somewhat parallel to acid levels. There is a HSI that helps determine how much alpha acid remains and I use that as a guide in boosting levels in an attempt to reach original oil levels.

Not really, the price break is so good it pays (to me) to get 'em while they're fresh and if a small amount is tossed you're still ahead of the game. Example: Just saw 8 oz of Columbus for $8 while a 16 oz package was $11 . . . so I'm swimming in Columbus. I feel it's important to buy early in the hop-year from a reputable distributor so I can manage the storage. I rarely buy an ounce or two from a LHBS, too risky.

The food saver (and lots of bags) is the key to make this work. When I open a pound bag I re-bag into something like an 8 ouncer and a couple of 2's. You can also seal in a mason jar, but I've found it's the opening/re-opening that does the damage. For me a brew day is too important to risk iffy hops. For anything over a year old I'll drop 4-8 pellets in a bud light, re-seal, then drink a week later. Your nose/palate will tell you what's going on. Some hops hang in there while some are duds.

For this recipe the Saaz/Hallerau bitterness could easily be duplicated by about ¼ oz of Magnum or done even easier with just over one milliliter of hop extract.

 

I hoard hops like I do beer.

I have hops from 2012 still that are fine.. In my mind they aren't prime, but I have used them, and being vac sealed and even some still nitrogen flushed and frozen.. no real issues.

I have hop extract in syringes in the fridge all sealed up, and it holds up really, really well for bittering. I dont buy hops for pure bittering anymore. If they can, it's a bonus.

 

I try to buy all my hops in bulk and I try to plan out a brewing schedule so they get opened in a reasonable order, but I don't really worry about it. One thing to consider, a pound of leaf hops takes up a lot of room, 8 pounds uses a big chunk of a chest freezer. I mostly buy pellets so I can fit other things in my freezer.