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Avery Momi Hiwa Barrel-Aged Series #15 June 9th

Discussion in 'Mountain' started by Knownfactor, May 30, 2013.

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  1. Domingo

    Domingo Poo-Bah (2,229) Apr 23, 2005 Colorado
    Subscriber Beer Trader

    Chambers never has a limit on anything. One guy bought a full 24-bottle case of Bligh's last Winter. What's on the shelf is open game. If you ask, you can buy anything in the back, too. I love that store but wish there were 2-3 bottle limits.
    I won't buy more than 3 of anything rare there just to be fair.
  2. Prospero

    Prospero Savant (948) Jul 27, 2010 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    FWIW, Case of 12oz is 24 bottles. Case of 22oz is 12 bottles. At just over 8,000 12oz. bottles it's the equivalent of 1/6 the batch of Dark Lord, or 1/10 the batch of Parabola. With probably half of the batch sold at the brewery upon release, it's probably even smaller amount getting to the Denver-area.
    coreymcafee likes this.
  3. Steve_0

    Steve_0 Aspirant (216) Mar 14, 2012 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    I like this analysis. Really puts the numbers into perspective.
    kojevergas and coreymcafee like this.
  4. poonamibaxter

    poonamibaxter Aspirant (262) Jun 26, 2007 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    But but Darklord is Midwest and sucks, you need to add
    tacosandbeer likes this.
  5. buffs9

    buffs9 Aspirant (291) Apr 28, 2008 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    I was referring to Wilbur's not enforcing limits.
  6. nolimitnsb

    nolimitnsb Initiate (0) Nov 26, 2012 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    It's actually just over 6k on the bottle count. There's 283 24-count cases and Andy has said here that Adam Avery takes approximately 25 cases for his private cellar. That leaves just over 6k that will get out to the public.
  7. Mebuzzard

    Mebuzzard Poo-Bah (3,461) May 19, 2005 Colorado

    If Avery aren't going to distribute through their distributor, then they should keep it on premise, as well as their other "special" beers. Instead, we see bullying tactics akin to BMC and pressure on retailers to maintain bottle limits. They go all out to make the retailer the bad guy when retailers are their customers.

    This is a trend we're seeing more of in craft brewing; brewery makes "rare" beer and demands retailers carry the entire lineup in order to receive said beer. They label it as a "reward", when it's actually pushing for shelf space and putting the locus of responsibility on the beer buyer.
    That's why we dropped RR and FSW. Who knows what we'll do with Avery...

    kojevergas and tacosandbeer like this.
  8. Domingo

    Domingo Poo-Bah (2,229) Apr 23, 2005 Colorado
    Subscriber Beer Trader

    Ah - that's mainly just because the staff just doesn't know any better. I bought 2 Parabolas when there was a one bottle limit. I mentioned it to the guy after he checked me out and said one was my wife's. He didn't know there was a limit at all.
  9. denver10

    denver10 Poo-Bah (2,193) Nov 17, 2010 New Mexico

    I get the frustration but not sure I think its a problem.

    Isn't this kinda like the Crooked Stave Cellars club on a store level where if you buy in, you get access to the prime beers, and if not, you don't?
    buffs9 likes this.
  10. imfrommichigan

    imfrommichigan Aspirant (270) Jul 12, 2012 Utah
    Beer Trader

    I see Momi Hiwa is seeing a little distro per Mile High Wine and Spirits Facebook. Does anyone know what kind of distro it's making? We see a lot of Avery here in Michigan and I know it's a long shot..
  11. buffs9

    buffs9 Aspirant (291) Apr 28, 2008 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    Good point, though I don't think it's just Crooked Stave. Most breweries/distributors don't let stores just pick and choose the good beers, you have to carry everything (if you want the good stuff)
  12. nolimitnsb

    nolimitnsb Initiate (0) Nov 26, 2012 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    It's only being distributed in CO and in limited quantities. Mile High almost positively got 1 case.
    imfrommichigan likes this.
  13. imfrommichigan

    imfrommichigan Aspirant (270) Jul 12, 2012 Utah
    Beer Trader

    Thanks! That's what I figured.
  14. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Meyvn (1,050) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    Parker still had 4 bottles left guys. What kind of hoarders are you?
    And yeah, it was a 24 count case.
  15. Mebuzzard

    Mebuzzard Poo-Bah (3,461) May 19, 2005 Colorado

    With CS you're paying for the beer you want, not buying beers you don't want in order to get those you do want.
    Retailers are customers to the distributors/breweries. Would it be right for a store to say to customers: 'hey, you can't buy that unless you buy 5 other things that you don't really want...but I'll reward ya if you jump through hoops"?

    With Avery's handling of this (it's them, not the dist) they are saying to stores AND those stores' local patronage, "Hey, you don't get to have this b/c you don't like all of our beers". While Ellie's is a good brown, it doesn't sell. Same with Out of Bounds and (seasonal) Karma. So...we don't carry them. We carry all the others. Our customers tell us what to carry, we don't tell them what they want.
  16. Mebuzzard

    Mebuzzard Poo-Bah (3,461) May 19, 2005 Colorado

    This is true, it's bullying that BMC did/does. I understand giving first allocation to those stores that carry everything (which are the very big ones). But to refuse to allow other, medium sized, mom-and-pop stores to carry certain beers is beyond me.
    Avery isn't as bad as RR, but a little bad is bad enough. As far as I've experienced they are the only CO brewery that does this. Boulevard does it with their Smokestack signature series (one year we had the Chocolate ale, the next they wouldn't let us sell it)...and we dropped them. Well, still have the Tank 7 and Wheat, b/c they sell.
  17. denver10

    denver10 Poo-Bah (2,193) Nov 17, 2010 New Mexico

    So how do I go ahead and just buy a couple bottles of Persica from Crooked Stave without buying the membership?
  18. Mebuzzard

    Mebuzzard Poo-Bah (3,461) May 19, 2005 Colorado

    You don't, but the membership gets you more than that beer, and ones that aren't already on shelves. You don't go to CS and buy all their beers on tap, just to get a glass of Persica. Plus, you can do whatever you want with those other bottled beers in the membership: trade, sell, drink, cellar. I suppose you could just let them sit on a shelf doing nothing--which is what some Avery beers do.
  19. denver10

    denver10 Poo-Bah (2,193) Nov 17, 2010 New Mexico


    The only way to get Persica is spend the $300 on the membership. If you aren't interested in those other beers, they wouldn't add value to you and you are essentially required to spend $300 just so you can get 2 bottles of beer and the chance to buy a few additional bottles of it.
  20. MarkyMOD

    MarkyMOD Meyvn (1,136) Apr 5, 2012 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    Not saying I necessarily agree, but from the brewery's perspective I'd imagine it goes like this: we have this super limited beer that we can barely get a case of to our best customer's, so why would we sell to someone who doesn't even carry our full lineup? By that logic they should also look at raw sales and keeping with the craft beer spirit they should take into consideration the store's size, how long they've been customers, how awesome the beer buyer is, etc. However, that adds a lot of extra work for the brewery.
  21. Mebuzzard

    Mebuzzard Poo-Bah (3,461) May 19, 2005 Colorado

    Yes, but one difference is that Persica is very limited, this Avery is not (as limited). If Chad made more Persica, then more people (w/o memberships) would be able to buy it. Some stores aren't getting this Avery beer not b/c there's not enough, but b/c they aren't "playing ball". It is being withheld. Plus you can trade/sell those other Membership beers fairly easy, they have value beyond your interest. Try trading Ellie's or any of the regular lineup.

    The other difference is that the beer buyers answer to their customers, are blamed by their customers, and lose customers. If you don't wish to pay $300 for 2 beers, it's on you and the brewery. Avery is distributing this beer themselves, putting the blame on the beer buyer and store.
  22. Mebuzzard

    Mebuzzard Poo-Bah (3,461) May 19, 2005 Colorado

    If it's super limited, they wouldn't (haven't) release it to stores. This was my initial irritation...why not just sell it from the brewery if all you're going to do is "let" a few shops have it? True, going to the brewery is a pain....but how different is that than finding which stores were "awarded" it, and if they still have it? Difference = store gets the blame. Again, I don't mind having "whole lineup" stores get first allocation--but to refuse service to others just gets my blood boiling. Grrrrr!:sunglasses:

    Still, we could carry the whole line up, let some beers sit and expire, then push 'em down the warm Carlo Rossi shelf, stick a $4.99 tag on 'em and have them represent the brewery. But we don't. That's a service we provide to the customer and brewery. But the latter just sees quantity and not quality. :rolling_eyes:
    MYJELLOMISFIT likes this.
  23. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Meyvn (1,050) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    So distribution companies are 100% honest and would make sure every store got an equal number, not just the ones who move big product? puuuuuuuhfuckinglease.
  24. Mebuzzard

    Mebuzzard Poo-Bah (3,461) May 19, 2005 Colorado

    Not at all lol. They bully, too. Avery is using the distributor playbook, but they aren't being called out on it. If you don't like what distributors do, then you shouldn't like what Avery is doing.

    In the end it doesn't matter to my customers why we don't carry this beer; it just matters that we don't. What am I to tell them: "well you should have bought more Avery regs".
  25. Jasonrm72

    Jasonrm72 Devotee (410) Apr 29, 2012 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    Damn, the one time I decide to be financially responsible when it comes to beer. I had the feeling deep down that I should have bought the full 12 allotment. But nooooooo, I only got 8 and now I'll actually be tempted to buy them retail should I get the chance and end up spending even more.
    That'll teach me
  26. denver10

    denver10 Poo-Bah (2,193) Nov 17, 2010 New Mexico

    I feel like at this point we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this situation.

  27. Mebuzzard

    Mebuzzard Poo-Bah (3,461) May 19, 2005 Colorado

    Not sure where the disagreement is :slight_smile: We both think it sucks that people get shut out of a chance to buy a beer, right? CS has one way, Avery another. One way lays responsibility on the brewer, the other on the retailer
  28. guyforget

    guyforget Initiate (0) Nov 12, 2009 Colorado

    not sure why its even a discussion.

    crooked stave selling beer to individuals isnt nearly the same as avery selling it to resellers.

    persica and momi hiwa are not equatable in this instance.
  29. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Meyvn (1,050) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    I'm with you, and agree that shelf space bullying is bullshit. However I don't see how one is better than the other in this instance. Does it really matter if it's avery or cr goodman (not blaming goodman, just using them as an example) who use these tactics? Even if this was sent through the "right" channels, chances are it would still see the same distro. It's the american way. How many small businesses do you frequent where they know your name and might kick you a free cup of coffee or pastry because you buy coffee from them every day? Some may call it customer appreciation, some may call it strongarming or leveraging.
    Long story short, I agree that bullying shouldn't be tolerated, however when everyone is playing by the same rulebook you need to fix the rules and not the players.
  30. Domingo

    Domingo Poo-Bah (2,229) Apr 23, 2005 Colorado
    Subscriber Beer Trader

    I'm going to summarize this last page with "Don't hate the playa, hate the game."

    On the plus side, Momi is 100% worth any hype it has gotten. It's full-on wonderful. I wish I had hauled my ass over to Boulder on release day now.
    Schmittymack and dauss like this.
  31. Mebuzzard

    Mebuzzard Poo-Bah (3,461) May 19, 2005 Colorado

    And this was Avery's chance to change the tone a bit. Why did Avery bypass the distro?? What was this purpose? To make sure the "right" people got it? (this happened with Rumpkin last year. Thought things would change after that debacle) This is my biggest curiosity. Seems like they did what BMC does, but with more intensity. When CDC or InBev does it we call them corporate a-holes...why is this different?

    Maybe their strategy backfired. Inquiries reach brick walls.
  32. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Meyvn (1,050) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    I'm not sure one man (or brewery) makes a difference. It seems the one who really loses out here are the shop owners. These bottles are gonna sell, and the price is pretty much the same everywhere. This behavior won't drive me away from avery, but it does leave me wondering if craft beer is leaving it's feel good do what's right roots...
  33. wyoming

    wyoming Disciple (396) Sep 4, 2007 Wyoming
    Supporter Subscriber

    u just got to buddy up with the middle man thats putting the brew on there shelves if u cant make release ..avery is worth driving hours ...its all in the timing!
  34. Mebuzzard

    Mebuzzard Poo-Bah (3,461) May 19, 2005 Colorado

    Sorry, all, this just strikes a chord with me. Years ago New Belgium switched to CDC for distribution, after they said they wouldn't. Now case deals are out of sight and the smaller stores (note: smaller than a grocery store) cannot afford non-deals. Boston Beer and Sierra Nevada are CDC. The stale, business side of craft brewing is starting to dominate some brands. I understand, it's business. But don't f*** over the ones who helped out.

    *looks for a pitchfork and torch?*
  35. ArrogantB

    ArrogantB Poo-Bah (3,178) Jun 9, 2006 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    So is this beer any good? I saw a bunch today.
  36. nolimitnsb

    nolimitnsb Initiate (0) Nov 26, 2012 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Nah. Sucks. Don't waste your time. By the way, where did you see it? I'm curious as to which store was stupid enough to buy a bunch.
    dsaudio likes this.
  37. ssteigerwald

    ssteigerwald Aspirant (254) Mar 4, 2010 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    What beer are we talking about anyway?
  38. ArrogantB

    ArrogantB Poo-Bah (3,178) Jun 9, 2006 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    Nick's liquors, Colfax and Peoria.
    nolimitnsb likes this.
  39. ucsbmullet

    ucsbmullet Crusader (749) Oct 5, 2011 Colorado
    Subscriber Beer Trader

    Finally tasted a bottle. Boozy and sweet as hell. This one's tough to take down, even with two people. Dessert beer for sure. Hoarders/traders, you've been warned.
    scray24 and SFACRKnight like this.
  40. MileHighShooter

    MileHighShooter Initiate (154) Nov 23, 2010 Colorado

    This isn't new for Avery. One of the sales reps has been doing this for a while. There is a certain local "premium beer" bar, who told Avery to shove it and pound sand when they said you can't have the special bottles (one of which, was premiered BEFORE the release date, at their bar) if they didn't get a full tap line up.

    Pretty ashamed of what is going on over there in regards to this stuff. Maybe Adam started asking Vinny for tips on selling sought after beer.
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